HC got buffed in the patch today.
Read about accuracy (unfortunately not at home and cannot test rn), but imo the problem is not the accuracy, but the projectile speed. I will test it when i get home.
Italians on 20:04 and 16:18
About viper saying that italians arenât bad, I agree with him, they are good⊠if you are the viper.
I mean a good tech tree isnât a bad thing at all, but I think he donât realize how difficult is to make use of it for most of usâŠ
Itâs 50 base damage instead of 40, and itâs 50 more damage to buidings, and 5 more damage vs siege units. This means that it takes only 2 shots instead of 3 to kill a treb, 4 instead of 5 to kill a SR and 1 shot to kill a SO instead of 2. Also 4 burgundiansâ BBC basically have the damage output of 5 standard BBC.
Italians still can get a BBC for free each 4, so it may seem at the same level, but while italiansâ bonus may be more useful to get your first BBC out, burgundians are way strongher as the game goes on.
Really? I didnât read anything about them, do you have a link? (not because I donât belive you, but because Iâm curios to know how I miss itâŠ)
I fell you, the obssessive-compulsive inside me is screaming 11 
in the fixes section of the patch notes:
- Fixed an issue where the projectiles of some ranged militaryâmost notably gunpowder unitsâwould be less accurate than intended.
- Fixed an issue where the projectiles of some ranged militaryâmost notably gunpowder unitsâwould be less accurate than intended.
1 Like
Ahhh ,thanks guys I missed it.
Well we will see if they work now, especially portos HC and bizz fires.
Italian are really good now they recieve huge nerf on water map sure (but who love water map) and huge buff on land map,its more easy to mass their UU and the discount on their university is really huge !! the amount of ressource you save with that new bonus is so awesome you can buff your xbox or UU so easily now. for playing a lot of time italian before the patch i really feel the huge difference with the buff
So here is how much italians now save with the university discount:
-
In castle age:
430 food, 339 wood, 91 gold and 33 stone -
In imperial age:
710 food, 397 wood and 66 gold
Now what catch my eyes of course are ballistics, that now cost 201w and 117g, and chemistry, that now cost 201f and 134g. Another notably techs may be masonary (now 100f and 117w). HS is also now more affordable in castle age (234f and 66g) which can be situationally useful.
Also, in imp it may seem that you save a ton of food and wood, but in reality most of it comes from keep and BT, which are more uncommon techs (especially BT).
In general I think that more of the resources saved, we should see this bonus as something that help you grab some more uncommon tech, or that are usually delayed, making them more flexible overall.
They could add cheaper Universities to make the University discount a bit more meaningful for water play. Unless you plan on going Keeps or BBTâs, you arenât going to see the larger discounts.
I was thinking what made Huskarls and Cataphracts much better as their brand of counter units, when compared to Gen Xbows. Itâs the fact that they have great armor to the units that would counter them, high base pierce armor and anti-cav armor. So, that suggests what Gen Xbows would need to be part of the triangle is some melee armor to counter cavalry better.
3 Likes
Fully agree with you, cheaper universities would make the buff more meaningful.
GC with lots of melee armor sounds really interesting, they become very resilient to melee units (except huskarls).
Catas and huskarls are units that always get damage from the unit that they should counter (like catas need to get in melee with halbs, and huskarls will always be under fire). GC instead can apply their bonus damage without contec with knights, and can even micro them, so itâs not a problem of armor.
The problem of GC is that xbows cost less wood (and now 5 more gold), are trained as archers since the feudal age from ranges (that are cheaper than castles), their upgrade (xbow and arb) cost less than EliteGC, and have 1 more range, so overall they are way more flexible.
Simply GC should be a bit more cheaper, or get the +1 range on the EGC, but letâs see how they perform now before suggesting more than thatâŠ
I think that the bonus is already solid as it is, 200w in early castle itâs not a huge investment (you basically delay a range or a monastery) but for sure if the bonus wonât seem to be enought, 100w (or even 75/50w) may be a good idea.
Or just having 20% cheap age up instead 15%âŠ
They already have +1 MA (+2 with pavise) and also 10 more HP over xbows/arbs, so I think they already are fine against knights on melee.
This makes sense, maybe one day they will be finally viable. I see devs are trying to boost them, but at this point I am wondering if halb is not just simpler
The huge problem is that you are very behind when the bonus comes, especially with the walls that are becoming weaker and weaker.
20% cheaper age up can do something, even if I still think that Italians should get simply a feudal push. Also starting with extra resources (even +150w or g since devs seem to like stealing your ideas from venice 11)
The risk atm is that Italians will not be able at all to use the bonusâŠ
The walls were nerfed only in dark age, from feudal forward they are the same.
And Italians have everything they need to survive in feudal, you age up with 75f and need 120f less to click up, thatâs about 200f (and 30g) during feudal.
Age up 20% cheaper would make them more smooth, and actually buff them a bit on castle age.
As for extra resources I donât think that they need it, since cheap age up and cheap fishing ships have a similar effect.
Lol, I donât think that they steal it from my civ design, even if I may like to think soâŠ
I mean, I did suggested 50% cheaper university, but that itâs not a super original bonus, and having some of the oldest universities in the world also make this bonus predictable.
Though, of they want they could steal the +150g at the start of of the game bonus, but I donât think that itâs what Italians need. I designed this bonus for a completely different civ.
They donât need to. Just having ballistics costing 200w and 117g is a good buff, and having all other techs more affordable helps every time without making them OP.
Iâm not saying that this will be enough for sure, but they are completely on another level after this upgrade, so every other change that they may still need lose in priority after this.
I mean, just look at Indians, or at the new civsâŠ
I think that after the TT reduction, they are now at least viable, but very situational.
For example, against cumans, GC is very useful and powerful, since cumans have only siege vs them and no unit suited to support them, or a bonus to kill Italias before GC.
Then on most of the other match-ups are more or less a worse version of the xbowâŠ
Very strong buff, university has lot of useful things depending on situation. Ballistics and Chemistry are pretty must every game. Treadmill crane is also almost always worth it later in the game, italians might start picking it up early castle age as extra economy upgrade.
Do note that they also buffed Hand cannoneer accuracy according to the patch notes, which is very big buff for Italianos. It remains to be seen how strong they are.
My biggest gripe with Italians is the fact that Genoese crossbowman elite upgrade is still only 5 HP unless youâre fighting cavalry. Id rather see them gain 1 more base damage instead of 1 bonus damage against cavalry as elite.
1 Like
I would prefer +1 range instead of +1 base atk in EGC, it would make them more flexible.
Yea but it might be little too strong as it is pretty well rounded unit already with Pavise and extra cav damage. I feel like 11 total damage after Bracer and Chemistry instead of 10 would help them fight all the 7 or 8 pierce armor units running around. Overall if you buff their range, they would just be superior arbalester but having 1 more damage and 1 less range while being good against cav would make them different.
1 Like
I would prefer HP/armor, otherwise they just become an arbalest replacement, like the mangudai is to CA.
1 Like
Yeah, but an arb that would cost more and requires a castle, like most of the archer UU.
Their cost and their range is what keeps them behind. You have an hard time massing them and then you struggle to force engagements with less range.
I guess that more atk or armor/HP would be better than nothing, but I donât think that itâll make the GC more viable, since it wouldnât address their main weaknessesâŠ
Well theyâre very strong against cavalry and cavalry archers while having 10 more health and +2/+1 after Pavise compared to FU arbs. I think it is fine for the unit to have a weakness from being outranged by 1. But it definitely needs 1 more attack after elite upgrade else it just feels lackluster against everything else than mounted units.