The problem is that Chinese aren’t only a generic flexible civ, but they also have an insane eco, so they can actually use that flexibility, italians can’t.
That is why a small eco bonus may work as well for Italians…
Chinese don’t have something small, the have 5 vills at the start an cheaper tech to help for the transitions.
On top of that they have a super UU.
Italians are different, they need some for their military, that is what it would make the difference and would avoid buffing them on water/ibrid maps too much.
I agree about the italians but for portugese no, because the portugese with their 20% disscount on gold is really big buff
They only end up saving an extra 3 to 4 gold tops on most units. Thats not a huge buff. Especially for a civ that gets no bonuses for those units like britons extra range, or teutons extra armor.
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This is enough for a no gold drush. They archers are cheaper than mayans in feudal. On units like knights, siege, and monks 20% is a lot.
Portuguese may get another bonus for sure, but, as also hera recently said, Italians are a no bonus civ on land. 75f in feudal. I cannot think of a civ with a worst feudal age…
The only military option available is extra armor… which is a bit overlapping with viets… I think that an alternative eco bonus should be taken into account. A 10%f discount is very reasonable…
Also the idea of archery range units trained in barracks and stables is very unique
For Portuguese we may propose to follow the idea of resource trickle of feitorias.
The bonus may be: TCs generate 20f/min. Ofc this should be saturated at 60-80 f/min (so no effect after the third or fourth TC).
It is basically one free farmer in dark age (if the bonus starts from dark) and feudal. And it is around 3 extra villagers in castle/imp…
It would be better and more accurate to train archers at TC.
Because drushes are such great strategies that routinely do huge damage…
Mayans have other insane eco bonuses though and portuguese have nothing.
On a knight, ram and scorpion its an extra saving of 4g each maximum.
Monks 5g.
Only on mangonel, BBC and trebs is it anything more then 5 extra gold saved per unit.
And remember, none of these units get any extra bonuses to them like other civs. They are generic
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I’ll just trow a couple of ideas for portos:
-
All eco upgrades (wheelbarrow, double bit axe…) are researched 80% faster
-
All military upgrades (like arbs, cavaliers…) are researched 80% faster
One improve a bit the eco, the other give a bit more punch to the military.
Both work nice with the gold discount in my opinion.
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Yes but it is added to the previous discount. On a monk is 20g spared instead of 15. It is a boost of 33%, on all the gold units.
Just to be clear, I am not saying they are strong. I am saying they are just decent (better than Italians in several strategies).
I am still favorable to buff them, just saying that now they are much better
Better? Definitely no, it would be idle TC for vills…
True, didn’t think about that…
However, to reflect the fact that the xbow was a common weapon, it would be more accurate.
Maybe they could be trained at the market or blacksmith, still I prefer the old options (40% faster TT, +1PA, free archer armors).
The old bonuses are maybe less unique. Someone says too powerful. I like them as well tbh…
Just think of the versatility of the bonus:
- maa ->double AR becomes just maa-> 1AR, it is 175w spared.
- scouts-> archers. You do not build anything in addition to barrack and stable. You add just the AR in the transition to castle to upgrade the xbow, and immediately you get 3 ARs pumping xbow
- you can add barracks or stables to train archers depending on what you plan as meatshield (hussars or condos)
- basically you will need just one AR in all the game…
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Delayed, because eventually you would still build more than one range to train more xbows.
Immediately no, because you would firstly idle to research xbow.
I don’t deny it’s usefulness, but after it’s one time effect, they don’t really help you a lot, in the end, it’s just 175 wood more, maybe twice that, but nothing more.
Free archer armors as a comparison, let you save a lot more resources.
In feudal you push with 2 ARs. With Italians you would push with one AR and one barrack. It is 175 w spared!
Yes, but xbow upgrade is super fast
Also tech switch is much easier. It would be a nice bonus to play…
Not really, because you would however need the corrisponding building for the corrispondig unit for upgrades.
Yes but in castle (and sometimes even sooner in late feudal) you need more than two ranges.
LOL in imp you shouldn’t even count how many ranges you build.
I’m sorry but the other 3 bonus just seem stronger.
Maybe this bonus would be a bit better for portos, because at least they would also have the gold discount to help them more easily transition between different kind of units.
Yes but with the bonus just one. You can train archers from the barrack (that you have). If you opened scouts you have 3 buildings that can pump out archers. A normal scout into 3 AR xbow requires 2 more buildings for the same amount of training buildings
You usually keep building them, you don’t stop at 3, and in the end it will always be just 175 wood for the entire game.
One time I built 6 ranges just in castle age.
But you also build multiple stables. In this case you would need less.
In the early stages is pretty good, at least 175×2.
What you do in the early stages with 5 buildings, you can do with 3
You build more stables because you need them to train cavalry, if you have them busy training archers what’s the point?
The bonus could work with a building that isn’t supposed to train military (like blacksmith or markets) and even so it would be still weak, because the maximum amount of wood saved is between 175 and 350 wood.
Sometimes maybe yes, but even so, free archer armors let you save a lot more resources, while also freeing blacksmith time and allows you to out-tech the enemy.