Italians useless vs siege spam

Why does their Condottiero have no pierce armor? This is the most useless unit in the game!

Italians cannot counter celts siege onager/ballista/ram spam. They get rflattened.

give condottiero 5 pierce armor, let them have a similar role like the gothic Huscarls, and the Italians would be a great civ

fix !

The Condottiero is perfectly fine. It fills the role as a champion replacement for many civs that don’t have champions in a team game. This unit is extremely powerful on island maps since you do not have to research very much into infantry. The powerspike in early imperial is immense, an all-round good fighter, that only needs blacksmith upgrades.

The main thing holding back Condottiero is their gold cost. The Condottiero needs decent trade to sustain production.

It already is pretty good vs archers, due to their fast movement speed. Halberdier does not counter Condottiero. So, they can function like hussar without taking bonus damage from spears. This allows them to easily brush past spearmen defending archers and engage the archers without a problem.

It completely nullifies gunpowder counter units vs infantry. This unit is the worst nightmare for Turks, since they rely on a lot on gunpowder units. It make force them to make other non gunpowder to counter it.

The Malians Condottiero is crazy vs archers. They get plus 3 pierce armor.

1 Like

Italians are already a good civ, the Condottiero is used to fight gunpowder and as a powerspike due to not needing you to upgrade the unit line. If you want to fight siege, you should be using Bombard Cannons or Redemption Monks.


that’s not the role of condos. their advantage is that you can produce them in imp without needing to research tons of upgrades first. only blacksmith ones.

italians have bombard cannons to counter siege, why in the world would you make infantry against scorpions??

Condotierro already have 5 pierce armor (Plate Mail Armor + Pavise), what are you talking about?

You have Bombard Cannons and Bombard Towers, if Celts player can spam Siege you can similarly spam Bombard Cannons and Towers. And you have very good Monks, so you can shut down Siege play completely. Celts don’t even get Atonement.

You also have FU Hussar. And a far better early-middle game. The only map where Celts probably do better lategame is like, Black Forest, so… I wouldn’t call Italians useless vs Siege spam nor do they have no answers against Celts.


condottiero sshould be good vs gunpowder untis and archers, but it’s good at none of it. It gets totally destroyed by both guns and arrows

They arent supposed to be good vs archers. They are good vs gunpowder units in small scale.


thats the point, italians auto lose vs siege civs

it is not the most useless unit. It counters fast imp.

Italians got discount on imp so you hit imp earlier. Condottiero got no counter at the timing. A unit with 80hp, 14 attack , 5/5 armor vs knight , crossbowman, battering ram

1 Like

r u not reading the post? Italians auto lose vs siege spam. Their crossbows get destroyed by onager/scorpion spam. And their cav is too bad to get close. Their bombards too micro intense and expensive and not effective enough. Italy is missing a tanky unit that is able to get close. The condotierro would be ideal, if it had pierce armor. It’s current role is total useless

You must be kidding,
Italians got FU knight and siege units in castle age

In early imp, you have Condottiero which should get enough advantage for you.
If you want to play super late IMP, why don’t you pick a late game civ ?

1 Like

They still got FU hussar, almost FU monks and discounted bombard cannon. Far from no answer to siege spam.

hussars r useless twhey dont make it to the siege if he has massed siege.
Besides condotierro is terrible against guns. It has no anti guns armor

A lot of units can’t handle celts siege in the lategame. That’s why Celts are still one of the top picks in BF TGs.

That Said, Italians are actually above average on their Siege handling.
They have FU Cavalier and Hussars. They have good Monks. They have Condos.
And they have cheaper Gunpowder aka BBC.

Weirdly enough what Italians often struggle the most with is the basic land meta games. Cause they lack a meaningful early game bonus for these.


If opponent has the eco to spam onager and scorpion, you are still spamming condo. Then you deserve the loss.

Yes it does, Condotierro negates the Hand Cannoneer’s bonus damage. Are you just trolling at this point? You have several options against mass Siege, and Condotierro counters gunpowder because it negates bonus damage against them and does bonus damage against gunpowder units.

If you’re losing to just Siege, I’m sorry but… even just FU Cavalier spam will kill the siege. You can split the army in few smaller groups and patrol in from different angles to get a surround in, all you need to do is make 5 clicks.

Condotierro can work just fine too, as you don’t even need that many upgrades or buildings, and if the enemy does make Halberdiers (which they should), you don’t immediately die either.


this is just patently false.

there are 3 main ways of countering siege:
monks with illumination and redemption
bombard cannons

Italians have all three, and their bonuses help them reach imperial faster (cheaper imp) and get BBCs out faster (cheaper chemistry, cheaper BBC)


What civs do you pick usually?

Next hes gonna tell us Mameluks and elephants need 2 pop slots because theyre broken on michi. We see you Coyplautus123!


oh sorry, you are right. This is why celts is an OP civ and used by pros in all tournaments while Italians are never picked because they just always die to seige pushes. /s

again: condos are not meant to counter siege
knights with upgrades are a good unit against ram/scorpion compositions, but you want some BBC behind that to kill the scorpions

that’s just wrong, and you have been corrected on this several times. either you don’t want to listen or you can’t read. you can look on the wiki, or even in the game files if you don’t believe us