So the Italian units are mediocre, because the developers want us to combine them with units that take 1:00 minutes to produce and that don’t allow you to use shipments?
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But papal units can’t be spammed, which is fine, but makes the civ weak.
I mean, yesh I get, Italy has average hussars (for example) but if you mix in papal lancers they become good, that’s fine.
But if I’m in a situetuons when I can’t spam papal units, then italy, in my humble opinion, should have at least 1 very good unit, for the late game too, when even if you spam basilica units you also need sto spam standard units.
The basilica units are fine in my opinion, italy just need some units that doesn’t necessarily need to have papal units as support.
The pavisier could be the one, since they aren’t already bad, they just need some small push. The halbs too surprised me, they are really underrated in the late game, again maybe a small buff to the roman army card and to the pavisiers HP might do the work.
eu acho que Itália e uma civilização rank B em jogos longos eles não tem nada de original além da guarda papal a economia não e tão boa as unidades são medianas, malta e muito mais dinâmica tem varias cartas legais unidades incríveis e economia muito boa o exercito maltes e muito dinâmico e pratico em rushs e tratados
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algumas cartas poderiam ser movidas para era 2 e 3 principalmente a do dano da infantaria e diminuição de tempo da construção com arquitetos
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A slight change to how trainable mercenaries work so players can control which ones we get would be good for Italy with its many lombard and tavern.
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From what I can tell, there are three issues raised here:
- Overall, Italy’s units, except papal units, are average/mediocre.
- Pavisier’s stances are rarely useful and are not worth the micro.
- Basilica shipments, which should help to compensate for the military gap, are overly controlled by being on the same shipment queue as the home city shipments and take too much time to train before AgeIV.
So what could be done in a future update?
The pavisier. Let me say something to start with. This unit trails off in AgeIV, even if you use the Roman Tactics card. They must do this because if they did not, you’d never have a reason to train the bersagliere in AgeIV. They simply need their stances to be a bit better rather than having their stats buffed:
-Switching stance animation now takes 1sec down from 2sec.
-In stagger mode, you keep ranged resistance but you get 0.5speed.
-In melee mode, you get the heavy infantry tag, a 1x multiplier vs. cav (up from 0.75), and melee resistance.
-Defense and Stand ground mode are fine as they are. They should get +15% (up from + 10%) with the Heavy Pavisier card though.
Basilica shipments and techs:
-For each Basilica built, you get -5sec in papal units training time.
-Papacy tech is already available in Basilica without Statuto Albertino card, but it’s not free anymore.
-Papal Arsenal lets you train papal units 20% faster, down from 33%.
-Carabinieri tech now gives you 10 Carbine Cavalry units down from 12, and costs 500/500/500.
-Risorgimento tech should either be cheaper, or the +1 revolutionary should be added for each unit lost, not just for vills so that it could be useful after a bad engagement. Up to the devs.
With these tweaks, the pavisier’s stances would see some play, and papal units would be more available to support your game before AgeIV. Moreover, if you build 2 Basilicas, your Papal units would still come in 40sec in AgeIV with Papal Arsenal card (50x0.80), while they would take 36 sec with all 3 Basilicas (45x0.80).
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Mmm yes that could work. I would just add that maybe it could receive +5/+10 more base HP.
I also don’t think that they need the switch to heavy infantry tag when in melee. That stance is probably designed only to give them a bit more survivability in melee, not to actually make them a anti-cav unit.
Alternatively, they could remove the melee resistance to this stance, and buff the other 2, so to have an effect similar to what you described above.
That’s fine, considering that it’s still not that easy to build 3 basilicas.
The only thing is that I wouldn’t remove the papacy from the statuto Albertino card, it should stay as it is.
That’s fine too, except that the carabinieri upgrade should cost just 1 resource, but I agree that it should be cheaper.
Yeah, you are right. Probably just the 1x multiplier should be fine.
That’s why it should already be in Basilica. You could save a card slot this way or build your second Basilica sooner.
Don’t you think splitting the cost would better suit Italy’s economy? If you notice, expensive Italy’s shipments/techs have been divided in f/w/c. Why should this tech make an exception?
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Mmm apart from the fact that a third basilica should occupy a HC shipment slot, there is also the problem that the statuto Albertino card should then give back a new tech.
I wouldn’t mind that considering that the basilica is an unique building, but what it could be?
Also, the fact that fact that the papacy is free, it also means a free vill.
Because that usually is the norm for unique church upgrades, and is easier to focus on just 1 resource for getting it.
Anyway I would add the Italy, besides having eco techs without age restrictions, such techs should also be a bit cheaper, like 20% less. Getting steel traps for example is really hard in age 1, and then you build the basilica and have to spend 200 food on an upgrade than gives just 1 vill and a bit more LoS…
Well, I think it’s fine.
They should implement a mercenary tech for the third slot, and call it Condottieri. Historically, the Condottieri were the leaders of bands of mercenaries engaged to fight in numerous wars among the Italian states from the mid-14th to the 16th century. They served popes during the Italian Wars of the Renaissance. This tech would pair well with Lombards and Trattoria card (+3taverns) and would make mercenaries a viable support choice, in synergy with papal units.
Of course, the Papacy tech would cost few resources (200c?), this way the fact that you would be able to send it sooner would pay off in villager seconds.
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I wouldn’t also mind that the royal guard mortar would be switched with something else… maybe it could go to the halberdier, since they are a nice discovery, and the duch are the only other civ to have the royal guard upgrade on that unit.
But it’s probably too late for that, so I won’t get my hopes up…
They should add the Barrage card to help the mortar see more play. Also, Galilean Mortars should get +1 range, given that they receive a +10% bonus on attack only.
Yeah but mortars are still a niche unit in the end, and even if you further buff them I don’t see much use for them in most games.
Even on treaty they don’t do much of a difference.
Well they could add that after the galilean mortar upgrade for free, otherwise I personally wouldn’t sacrifice another HC card for them…
I would still prefer to see royal guard halbs, they could call them arsenalotti, or arsenal guards or something similar if they need a name.
Well, I agree with you, but probably they wouldn’t change it. We had better accept that the devs chose mortars as the second Royal Guard unit, sadly.
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Yo creo que Italia necesita un Buff en el juego temprano, casi todas la civs de rush se la comen muy fácilmente, deberían cambiar 3 cajones de comida por 3 aldeanos y uno de madera por uno de oro y eso podría ayudar en su inicio (con respecto al pavisier, seria más útil que cuerpo a cuerpo tenga bonus contra caballería, aunque fuera pequeño)
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I believe that the biggest problem of the pavisier, is that they didn’t even fit the xbow part.
Yes they are stronger than an xbow, but it doesn’t compensate for the lack of skirms until age 4. It might be enough that the heavy pavisier card gives them a bit more HP, and that the stances would interchange faster.
I believe that making eco techs cheaper could also be a good alternative. In the end, having steel traps cheaper would mean easily getting a second vill faster and buffing the gather rate of all vill, so also aging up faster. Having cheaper eco techs would also mean getting more eco techs while getting from age 1 to age 2 and so closing the gap on vill number with civs that get a vill shipment in age 2. I believe that a 20/25% discount could be enough, and it would basically include all market, basilica, mills, estate and other various eco tech techs.
The other eco buff that I would like to see is to have the architect train as fast as a vill, not slower. Adding a second architect for the Italians is so important, since it allows you to put one only on houses, and the other on outposts or lombards, depending on the situation.
O en su defecto que Italia empiece también con 2 arquitectos como en el modo guerras imperiales, ya que al inicio del juego necesitas algo de velocidad a la hora de construir
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Italy can’t start with 2 architects, that would be OP.
A single architect on a standard mode is able to build a market, a house and a third building (either an outpost or a lombard) before aging up.
2 architects would be able to double that, which it would be too much… in my opinion there should be a way to quickly add a second one in the age 2. The gold cost is not a problem, the problem is how long it takes to train one, and that you are also behind in vill numbers.
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the ‘palazzo ducale’ and the ‘basilica’ are not so far from them , after that all other hc are all ‘‘restricted’’
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or you look at the real greographic nation , every kindom that was in the italy peninsular (i count about 15-16 kindoms during the 17 century) or you look at the real kindom that defacto is united with the risorgimento after the 1861 so at the end of the game, because part of venetian territory and north of italy was under the austrian-hungary empire
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