At this point why don’t they just give pavisiers guard and imperial techs or at least guard? Feels weird to have a unique unit with lot’s of cards but you can’t get them past veteran.
2 Likes
A little bit…
But if they can’t give it straight forward, at least have them unlock with the papal guard age up, or another unconventional way.
And it would be more useful than having the guard upgrade cheap for halb…
3 Likes
Possible Balance Changes for the Italians:
Units:
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Architect HP further reduced to 250 (from 275)
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Lombard HP reduced to 2200 (from 2500).
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Pavisiers changes the stances in 50% less time.
HC Shipments:
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Merchant Republics (I) now grants +35% resources for future and past (up from 25%) control of trade routes.
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Swiss Company (II): NEW CARD which delivers 7 papal guards and 1 swiss pikemen for 300 food, 300 wood and 300 gold.
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Venetian arsenal card (II) also unlock advanced arsenal technologies in age III.
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Papacy (through Statuto Albertino card) now allows for basilica shipment to be sent separately from HC shipments, but they take 3 times more to arrive. It increases the basilica build limit by 1.
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Roman tactics card (IV) now grants +15% HP to pikemen, halberdiers and pavisier (down from +30%). The attack buff now depends on how many different kind of units there are nearby between pavisiers, pikemen and halberdiers, unaffected by the numbers of units.
So with just 1 kind among pavisiers, pikemen and halberdiers you don’t get any buff, with 2 you get half of the buff, and with 3 the full attack buff.
- Usury card (IV) now affect all investments, not just the ones that returns gold.
Age Up Politicians:
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The Logistician politician (I > II): when chosen with the card advanced politicians sent it ships 1 arsenal wagon and allow to research 2 technologies for free (from 2 arsenal wagons and 1 technology for free).
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The Mercenary Contractor (II > III): it now unlock schiavoni in age III and mounted riflemen in age IV and to be trained into lombards (from unlocking just mounted riflemen and shipping 1 mounted rifleman). Advanced politicians still unlock the royal horsemen.
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The Papal Guard politician (III > IV): grants the guard and imperial upgrades for the pikeman and the pavisier and ship 8 papal guards if advanced politicians is sent.
Guard and imperial pavisiers grants +30% and +50% HP and attack, but without any +1 range for both.
the change of papacy will make it even more useless the papal units. 3 times slower is just a joke, 900 resources are spent in a shipment that will take 180 secs.
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Also, the “Heavy Paveses” card should improve paviser’s stances a bit (the defense stance could give siege and ranged resistance with a speed reduction).
Alternatively, it could also allow researching one technology for free from the arsenal.
It sounds like a huge nerf. By the way, I think the devs should consider removing these “unique church technologies” cards and letting them be already available in the church.
I have to make some considerations here. This card was implemented to give a sort of guard upgrade to the pavisier, it gives a +30%hp and a ≈30%attack buff with a condition. It is an interesting card, it buffs pikes and halberdiers’ hp and attack by 15% too, and is useful in some match-ups. Does the pavisier still need a guard upgrade? I’m still on the fence about it. A free guard upgrade through the Papal Guard politician with a nerf to Roman Tactics could work though.
FE made the decision to give Italy two similar unique units. Because of this, we have to give each a unique role. The Pavisier supports your early and mid-game. It’s strong in AgeII, gets nice cards in AgeIII, then trails off in Age 4. It must do this in order to not overshadow the Bersagliere. I think Italy needs to be a bit better in AgeIII with some tweaks, in order to make some builds that plan to finish games in AgeIII more relevant.
Schiavone isn’t a mercenary unit, it could unlock Pandour though, their mercenary counterpart.
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The x3 time is just a number, it can be x2, x1.5, x4 and so on…
Anyway the idea is to allow for the papal units to be shipped alongside the standard shipments, it can be good for the early game when you might want to send 3 papal lancer but also the albanian company, so if you time correctly the 2 shipments you can have a good powerspike.
The downside is that in the late game when you don’t have a lot of standard shipment to send having to wait that much for every papal shipping might be a problem.
If they would receive the guard upgrade, the unit will have so many HP that it matters little to have the ranged resistance for the small periods of time it won’t be a problem.
The card isn’t that great… yeah it buff the HP, but even with that buff pavisiers end up with less HP than a maltese arbalest… and the HP should their main strength.
As for the attack buff, it’s not that great, since it depends by the number of units that you have, meaning that you get less damage output as you lose units.
Having the guard upgrade means that the pavisier would actually be the tanky unit that they should be, yeah you would have to pay for the upgrade, but it’s not a big deal since eventually you don’t pay for the guard upgrade of bersaglieri, and Italy eco is super strong anyway.
The buff attack too needs to be changed, since it’s unreliable as it is now.
The bersagliere is a fast skirm that snowball fights with hit and run tactics and the pavisier is an archer tanky but slow unit, more suited to static fights
The main problem of the venetian arsenal is that you also need to include the milanese arsenal in order to get the advanced upgrades, which isn’t great…
Both are great cards, but I don’t think that you need to get both of them just to get some extra tech.
I know, but being a counter unit that doesn’t have other kind of buffs this is a way to make the unit more unique, also schiavoni were mercenaries.
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I came up with these crazy letters that will probably never exist but I’ll leave them up anyway:
Phanar Allies: where you can develop your units and the Armatoloi and Athos Monasteries technologies.
Greek Support: Turns your musketeers into Holy Band Infantry, and switches them in the barracks.
Great Works: Allows you to sell your mills, tc , plantations and corrals for gold.
Oromo Support: Send 6 Oromos for 300 of each resource.
Holy War: Gives you a special ability that when cast all papal units in an area will double for 10sec. 240sec of cooldowns (does not affect the papal bombard but does affect the Schiavone)
2 Likes
Those might be very good for a potential Greek revolution, but I see them as less suited for baseline Italy.
How this should work?
That doesn’t sound very balanced… 
imagine being able to double out 3 shipments of papal lancers, or the papal army age 4 shipment, which would be 36 papal guard and 6 papal bombards.
1 Like
Seria genial una revolución griega, pero la veo muy copo probable que salga por que podrían ser buenas cartas como referencia.
ej:
molino coste de 400w = 350g
plantación 600w = 550g
por eso especifico que no funcione con artillería jajaja, además seria unidades temporales de un lapso de 10seg. después de eso desaparecen. Tardaría 240seg volverlo a lanzar
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For Lombards I propose the following solution.
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The most recent changes in the new PUP for Italy:
That’s a bummer… I liked the albanian company but now basically it’s a shipment of 4 lancers and 3 hussars that cost 1500 resources… yes it still have its use, but I prefer to spam papal lancers at this point and get another card in the deck.
That’s not that big of a deal, the unit needed a nerf, and as Italy you ship the german company more for the jagers than the grenadiers.
Well ok, this is aimed at trety games, ad it should have done months ago, still its not that big of a deal…
This was affecting the whole team? I didn’t know that… but I also discovered that the card affect just muskets, bersaglieri, schiavoni and zouaves, just this 4 units and not all Italian units that have the tag musket or rifle infantry, so something like the revolutionary (which you can get a lot of them through the basilica) or natives like the royal musketeers aren’t affected, which makes me a little bit sad even if those are niche situations…
Still overall it’s not a lot… I get that Italy is in a decent spot but I hoped for some small change on some of its areas…
Also, I’m thinking that the Italians could get a third royal guard upgrade, as the mortars ones is bit too niche…
Yes, a Greek rev for the Ottomans…
Those are the new balance changes for Italy, I believe that the cards are nice, although they don’t really solve their problems, and they still have some weird age up politician rewards.
The new lombards cards are nice overall, it gives you flexibility in the resources, and I can actually replace all of the crates cards with lombard cards, although the new age 2 cards doesn’t convince me.
I was thinking that I could change my BO from:
- capitalism → Uffizi → monte di pietà → 700 gold
Into:
- capitalism → Uffizi → monte di pietà → sienese finances
But while I can live with 200 less gold, by that time I don’t really need 500 wood (even if I send it as the first age 2 card, by that time I already need that wood) but I need food to get to age 3, so it’ll be a situational card for some pavisier builds.
Sienese financies should either be a wood investment, or they could add an age 1 card that gives a food investment.
The luccan financies is nice, it’s a nice boost to age up to age 4.
The buff to the albanian company are nice too (direct and indirect) and the bersaglieri buff is meh… but welcomed.
I don’t get the pavisier nerf… the nerf to steel bolts was needed, but it’s not like the unit was in a great spot even before…
1 Like
The pavisier nerf wasn’t targeted at italy because they’re barely used by them they nerfed steel bolts because of the maltese xbow which needed that card due to the lack of 2 falcs. These cards are nice but it seems a lazy buff rather than just making the lombards better so they give more ROI.
2 Likes
Yeah I know that it’s a nerf aimed at the maltese arbs, but they could have used the opportunity to nerf and then buff the pavisier trying to solve some of their problems.
I mean, more lombards investments is quite nice and if used properly can be really good, but it doesn’t do much for some of Italy problems.
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I think that Italy going to be nerfed in the next patch.
Meh I don’t think so, unless they’ll mistakenly overbuff in this patch I don’t see why buffing for then nerfing it.
They do that many times. They overbuff something and the next patch they nerf it or even overnerf it.
See the case of hackapellit for example and how they have destroyed It after a crazy overbuff.
Italy are majorly underperforming on the current live patch so if anything this is correcting an overnerf.
Italy has a dangerous FI, and now better with the next update.
But I would also like the pavisiers to be stronger or that they could be improved at age 4 and 5.
I am delighted that the Albanian Company is complete again.
Lombards will only be effective because of the new cards that provide an exaggerated amount of resources and not by themselves.
They will continue to be weak in treaty.