Italy General Discussion

Yes, or a significant stats buff, maybe it could still be a free tech, but that transform them into a gold unit.

Or just an age 4 tech that enables the guard and imp upgrades.

Although, there is also to consider that this tech:

This upgrade, even if it’s borderline useless for 1v1 standard games, it still gives you a free vill for literally nothing (just a bit of idle time at the basilica) so only for that it mig3be worth to insert the church card into your deck.

Still, considering that the Italians unique building is basically the church, it would be nice if it had 4 unique techs instead of 3.

Oh boy, it seems that they moved the gondola card and the milanese arsenal to the age 2, the first will help you to fish boom, and the second would make the arsenal upgrades so cheap allowing you to spam vills and fishing boats.

Then you also have the venetians arsenal, to speed up the work rate of dokcs and military buildings, and to give you even more vills and fishing boats faster…

Maybe the milanese arsenal should be moved again to age 3, while the gondola card and venetian arsenal could stay in age 2.

Fun facts though, I get that the gondolas are iconic, but they were actually just personal transport, comparable to a horse or a bicycle on water, they are too small to fish.

I dont really think credit institutes were a thing in that time period…

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In fact it is fine, since the Italian lords used the Lombardies to recruit mercenaries (which in the game is done with the tavern)…

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Yes, in fact I corrected myself some posts later.

I mean, what surprised me was the name lombard. The lombards were people, often bankers, not buildings, that’s what was strange to me.

But then, I made a more extensive research and saw the even if the name wasn’t that accurate they had a ton of hints and links to the history behind it, that even if the name wasn’t super accurate it didn’t bother me too much.

The gondola card in age 2 is a good change because by age 3 it was too late to receive a fishing boat with each shipment.

The venetian arsenal won’t get much use, because it’s a card that should be worth 700 res, it’s better to build a second dock and ship 700w then you get a 100% increase in train time for 200w plus another 500w.

I’m not sure how much cheaper milanese arsenal makes the techs, but unless it’s very cheap it probably won’t be used, particularly as you’d be researching techs you don’t need for 1 villager. They’re very expensive too some of them are like 700 res a tech so even a 50% discount making it 350 isn’t worth it for 1 villager. Plus you have to take into account the cost of sending the card instead of 700 coin or something.

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It’s a fishing boat every tech, which is even better.

A venetian arsenal will buff more than one dock, and it should dramatically increase their work rates, while also buffing military buildings that are nearby. On top of that you get the arsenal techs, which never hurt.

I would personally send it even just to grab the techs at those buildings faster, or to spam galeasses.

Consider also that since Italians don’t have cards that gives vills or fishing ships, you have a bit more room into your standard deck.

I don’t know the exact number, but on some video I saw that some base tech cost like about 100 resources total.

Now, on age 3 that seems balanced, considering that it also unlock the advanced arsenal techs. On age 2 seems too strong, since that is a super affordable price just to get the extra vill.

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If you are planning to get an arsenal and go water then probably worth it yeah as you get the wagon, I’d use it if I were also sending the milanese arsenal shipment.

The cheapest tech I think is like 100 wood 100 coin, so with a 50% discount that would be 100 res so would be worth it. Almost all of the other techs are at least 300 res though I think. Possibly worth doing, will have to see how much the discount is first, don’t think this card gives you a wagon either so building it is an additional cost.

Im sure that just works for age1 techs, the other way it would be OP

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Even if it’s just the age 1 techs it’s like super strong.

They even changed the Italians initial resources, so they now start with 200 wood and 200 gold, so they could even more easily get age 2 techs.

Well, if you have the room for it why not?

It gives you a free building, boost the work speed of a ton of buildings and gives you access to techs that gives a vill and a boat.

If it is on age 2 it’s definitely worth. Consider that you should also remove another 100 food from that tech of the free vill, and another 200 wood if you have the gondola card.

Those seem to be the new Italy HC cards separated by ages:




It probably is yeah, depending on match up. Wouldn’t do it vs an inca native rush or something though lol.

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The hp bonus needs to be capped, same for South African speed boosts or Mayan holcan limit.
Yes you cannot stack them to infinity in regular games…so why not just cap it.

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It seems that the Italy early game was also nerfed a bit, the maritime republics card that gives you a TP and extra resources was moved to the age 2, wich is sad…

The broken lance company also now gives you a total of 4 units instead of 5, but I feel like that is still a strong card.

Also, the pavisiers seem really slow as a unit, I don’t know it they’ll be really wort… maybe in age 3 with all HC cards…

Just some interesting gameplay:

It’s an interesting design choice to give italy versatile xbow with no skirm in age 3, and this merc skirm that counters other skirm and has high melee damage with no negative multiplier, I guess you’d want this if your opponent is just kiting your pavisiers with skirms. in theory schiavone pavisier can be a versatile age 2 comp as it might only be soft countered by melee cav with schiavone’s high melee dmg and pavisier’s melee resist mode, but how in the world would you get the resources to field such wood and gold intensive units in age 2 idk.

The unit I’m most worried about is the lancer though, 800 hp melee cav in age 2 is no joke. I play china and normally I like to open mongolian into standard army, but am I really going to try kiting these things with a few keshiks? I see they also got nerfed to 700 hp in recent patch.

I wonder if the papal units’ damage absorption can be a weakness, does the absorbed damage go through the resistance of the papal unit, the resistance of the unit that would have received damage, or none at all? If the latter, and you have say a bunch of skirms, can you focus fire enemy HI to deal more damage to the papal lancer by bypassing your negative cav multiplier and/or their ranged resist?

Theorycrafting lombards, you’d want to age up with 1 and 2 settlers, but then should you set 300 to each resource asap like a mexico revolution, or is it better to spend this on techs to increase vil count? Do you need a rax or want a tp during age-up? I see most builds just invest 300f to start, then send the 700 gold lombard, and get late rax, seems like a slightly greedy opening for not much eco payoff.

Speaking of, I also wonder how viable it is to get a 2nd architect if you open with say a lot of gold treasure, and how long would it take for an architect to pay for itself?

Back to lombards, if I’m understanding this correctly, each lombard can have a maximum of 6f 4w 4g trickle going at all times, seems crazy, but let’s do the math. 6+4+4=14, 14x5 lombards=70 vil eco, minus 300 each resource every x seconds, where x is the time it takes for 300 of each resource to deplete from 5 lombards, I think it’s like 15-16 seconds. So, maybe my math is off, but I think you need about a 60 vil eco to support 5 lombards continuously, which will produce a 70 vil eco? Assuming a vil gathers an average 1 resource/s, 900/15 = 60. Of course you don’t actually need 60 vils to get 5 lombards going, you can just keep reinvesting as long as you have 300 of each to start. Assuming that’s what you do, it means lombards are essentially 70-60=10/5 = 2 vil eco each? But I guess you don’t always have to reinvest, so you can set up resource spikes for yourself, and this is with all cards, without I believe each lombard would be worth about 1 vil in resource profit. I theorize that lombard gather rate in lategame/treaty will be strong while being tame in most 1v1’s.

But this is a rough calculation, it doesn’t take into account the 3:2 ratio at which food is gathered compared to other resources in lombards, or the different rates at which vils gather coin/wood, instead rounding all resource collection to a rate of 1/s. Finally it also fails to consider the added xp trickle to lombards, maxed at 1.5/s each, or the diminishing returns such xp trickles will give.

I hope the papal guard age-up enables guard upgrades for pavisiers, I saw in a video the description said it just ships papal guards, if so that’s a little disappointing to have so many upgrades for pavisiers only for them to become irrelevant lategame.

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I believe that the schiavoni are intended to be just a support unit, something that you get in low numbers to get more damage out against skirms, and aren’t that weak like standard skirms since you can’t field a lot of them.

In theory, if you want to go for mass schiavoni and pavisiers, you can go heavy on food and get wood and gold from lombards, this might especially work on maps with a lot of hunt or fish.

It has been moved to the age 3, in age 2 you can now ship only the schiavoni and the papal guard, lancers and zuaves are instead in age 3.

I believe that it’s a great ability for the papal guard and zuaves. With lancers it really depends on what others unit you have with them. With papal bombard, again, it depends of which units they are taking damage from, but they do have a lot of HP, so probably it’s good with a big mass of infantry around them. The infantry protect the bombard from melee, and the bombard absorb ranged damage.

I personally believe that you should prioritize eco upgrades for getting back more vills, then you invest in lombards. You should be able to age up with 1 lombard built by the architect, then you get 1 from the age up, and 1 from the HC card with 700 gold, which means that in about 2 and half minutes you’ll get 700 food, and 700 wood in a bit more time. By that time, you should be able to spam other 2 lombards and invest all resources, or to age up, or to invest into army, that really depends on the situation.

It would also be good to get the basilica shipment, since it makes lombard generate XP, other than giving you a basilica, although I don’t know if it’s better to get the basilica or the lombard shipment first? Now you also have the TP shipment in the age 2 (a pity…) so m it’s really a hard choice.

I believe that the lombards aren’t really something that you have to heavy invest since the beginning, but more of a way to balance your eco at the start, and to have some extra resources through the HC cards. Only in the late game you should constantly invest 900 resources into 5 lombards.

I believe that they need to give them the guard and imp upgrade someway, or a tech/card to transform them into a gunpowder unit in the age 4.

I get that they want incourage the use of the bersaglieri in the age 4, but it’s a hard transition if you have massed pavisiers up to that moment.

The guard upgrade can come with a HC shipment, an age up, a tech at the basilica with the church card, but they should enable it somehow.

Also to note, the steel bolt card seems to really improve the damage against buildings, it’s really a good card it seems.

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It seems that the Italians were changed a little bit again.

Now they start with 6 what it seems to be 6 crates of food and 2 crates of wood, no gold though. That seems a lot of food, but it’s probably to get both vills health and attack along with the wood upgrade upgrades to get extra vills. At the same time you now need to either mine some gold or get some treasure to get hunting dogs and steel traps, which seems balanced.

The broken lance shipment has been nerfed once again, and now you get only 1 stradiot and 3 papal lances. I get that those are strong units, but I would personally prefer to see at least 2 stradiot and 2 papal lancers, since it seems to be more flexible this way.

Also, here there are the options for aging up. All of them seems to be quite good onestly, maybe the inventor is the only one that I would avoid personally, since just 300xp and an air balloon isn’t that much…

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The should remove the population cost for the architect

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Why? How much pop they take?

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