Italy General Discussion

Do you guys think the Mantlet should get the ‘tanking’/damage redirect ability of the papal units? It seems like it would make sense now that the tech is in the game and that’s the point of the mantlet.


They are, you can see with HP, their starting hp is 120, and they get 50% more (60)… Now, we cannot see the same as easily for the damage, but since we cannot upgrade them manually they have to shadowtech, which all papal units do, so make sense for them too… Of course they get improved by HC shipments that improve their tags…
Schiavoni don’t get a charged attack no… They are the only unit from basilica that doesn’t get it…

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That’s a great idea for the mantlets.


Yeah you are right, it’s the papal bombard that other unit who get a special attack, but it’s only sento from the HC.

Still, the schiavoni look good, they counter other skirms, still counter heavy infantry and ranged cavalry, and doesn’t seem bad in melee too. Even removing the 50% buffed stats they don’t seem bad.

I guess that right, since they are expensive.

It makes sense for sure, but I believe it that this pose a problem. We still have to see how good the papal guard units deflect ability is, but if it’ll be a strong ability, that will be at least balanced by their high cost. On the other hand mantlets are cheap.

Maybe mantlets should have like a smaller area of effect, but an higher percentage of damage deflected, that way it would be more difficult but rewarding to use, and it wouldn’t be OP.

They don’t counter ranged cav, they don’t have any multiplier against ranged cav, they counter heavy infantry just slightly, but they seems perfect for skirms wars… And mixed with papal zuaves they can be a nice mix, especially if zuaves get the charged attack…

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The first battles involving Bersaglieri were during the Risorgimento. Perhaps “Italian Wars” will include it?

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seen it on a german youtube video… Vorstellung Italien - Gameplay und Walkthrough [KotM] - Age of Empires 3: DE - YouTube
skip to 14:00, it looks a lot like the davinci tank specialattack. But i havent seen someone using the ram attack yet


They don’t have a bonus against them, but they out-range them and have overall better stats, so they can be considered a soft counter.

Mmm… I would mix in some lances, or culverins instead. Zouaves are good, but both units get countered by artillery. Maybe pavisiers are better in front, with the staggered formation to absorb faconet fire.

No, the Italian wars were a specific set of conflicts, you can know more about it here:

This is my understanding.

Italy in summery:

  • Gets a free villager with every tech.
  • The architect (costs coin)that can either build for free or build fast, or you can build slowly and build fast by paying the remaining faction.
  • Have a skirmisher replacement, but only in age IV.
  • Pavisiers replace standard crossbows and has different resist depending on their stance, but like pre-DE longbows and insurgents are still archaic units that can only be upgraded to veteran level (I’m guessing italy does have Papal guard politician to give them Guard/Imperial status)
  • The Basilica is a big fancy church that doesn’t train units (not even priests/spys) but you get priests spies and special mercenary units available only to italians as shipments by paying for them at the basilica.
  • The Lombard converts resources in a 1:2 ratio without shipments even if it’s a slow you can build more lombards to increase the trickle, and the food trickles faster.
  • You can’t build taverns (so no coin trickle), but lombards train mercenaries and outlaws instead, but you can get a 2 tavern shipment for the coin trickles and 7 places to train mercenary units.
  • Italy has no royal guard infantry or cavalry (usually there is one infantry and one cavalry), their RG are culverin and mortar LOL.

Have I missed anything?


That’s a pity… Italy don’t get the guard and imp upgrade for them in any way.

I hope that this will change, they don’t need to get the royal guard upgrade, but at least the standard guard and imp upgrade. I mean, you’ll most likely mass them in age 2 and 3, and the in age 4 you don’t do anything with them… they also don’t have any card to transform them into other units…

I mean, I get that they want Italians to use the bersaglieri in the age 4, but that won’t be an easy switch…

Because they don’t need them. Bersaglieri and papal units seem quite strong, so they don’t need the royal guard upgrades.

Also, I predict thay royal guard culverins will be quite good probably.

They get a free vill every tech, and they don’t have age limits on eco and church techs.

I don’t know if that will compensate for starting with just 3 vills and don’t get anymore from HC or age ups, but still it seems quite good. Basically with the market in the dark age it’s almost like having double vill production (maybe more about 1.5) and the benefit of faster gathering rate thanks to the techs.

Still, I like this bonus a lot.

I was thinking about the fiscal guard HC card, that it gives you gold depending on how much enemies you defeated.

It’s not bad, but onestly it would be better if it give you some more long term value. Maybe it give you a small buff to your bersaglieri or dragoons, or it could simply ship a small number of dragoons.

Would it be OP?

Wath are the unique chruch upgrades you get from the unique church upgrade card, wich you can send in age2


Here are the Italians ones:

Personally, I would have give them at least 4 unique techs, since they have an unique church.

Also, the last one is quite boring, and borderline useless. I mean, for treaty it may be good, since you actually have the time to put down the third Basilica and the extra 1xp/s seem nice.

I don’t know, I believe that they need to buff/change this one a little bit, but I don’t know how…

Considering the size of the basilica I cannot imagine what it is going to look like if you build one more…


The extra church tech is the best one imo, it’s another huge high hp building, increases work rate of other bearby buildings, another strong xp trickle and another home city shipment point.

The revolutionary tech is only good if you lose 25 vills to begin with and the carbine cav tech costs 2000 wood.

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The basilica doesn’t speed up the work rate of buildings, just its building time.

The arsenals speed up the work rate of nearby docks and military buildings after the venetian arsenal card.

The fact that you have a tanky building that trickle XP and deliver you shipments is nice, but will mostly already have 2 by that time, and the third will take forever to build, so I don’t think that it’ll that much useful outside treaty.

Yeah, considering that you don’t want to lose vills, and your vills will have all health upgrades plus some good stats from HC cards, it’s not a crazy good effect, but still, it’s a nice niche tech that can be powerful in some situations.

Yes but that’s a good tech for the late game, and 2000 wood won’t be a problem with 5 lombards.

You can have up to 3 basilicas, 1 extra with a HC card, and another one with the tech that we are talking about, although it too requires another HC card.

The church card isn’t worth sending for italy imo. Talking just about 1v1 sup but there’s really nothing that is worth sending a shipment for. The extra church is ok but you normally have 2 anyway by sending the card that gives a church + lombard xp. Revolution tech I think will always be useless because the 1 time in 300 games that you do actually lose 25 vills you probably used a deck without the church card lol. The other tech you’ll only ever see in treaty, not worth it in 1v1 even late game, firstly you don’t want 12 carbine cav for 2k wood when you can train dragoons and they are better, also 10% training time improvement is worthless in 1v1 and the fire rate is a very small change, you’d get more value just putting the 2k wood in the lombards and training regular dragoons.

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Yeah it’s more worth to have the uffizi card, most games 1 basilica will be enough, and the XP generation for lombards makes them a lot more valuable.

Maybe the church card should give you another tech, or replace the basilica one. Maybe something like:

  • pavisiers can be upgraded to guard and imp, but they cost gold instead of wood.

I mean, you can squeeze in there for just situations, but only if have a spare slot.

2k wood isn’t a problem, by that time you’ll have plenty of lombards.

I would probably put it there the card if I think that the game will last long, considering that italians don’t get much bonuses for their cav, especially dragoons. The card also buff dragoons, so even if it could be a bit more, it’s still useful for long games.

I was just thinking… a 2v2 with the italians and the dutch as allies would be incredible strong thanks to this little card of the dutch, which is:

  • TEAM Cheap Market Improvements

Basically this card makes all techs at the market free for the whole team. Basically Italians would be able to research all the market techs in the age 1 and also get 9 villagers for free.

I mean, it would be worth to just get a double market in age 1 just to get the techs as fast as you can, and you wouldn’t even have to pay for the second one if you build it with the architect.

Probably they need to nerf this card with the release of the italians, or to at least make it a non-team card.

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I think they should have one that gives them the ability to let pavisiers go guard/imperial, that alone would justify taking advanced church for them.

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