I was under the impression the active player count signified either a game’s strength, or any ongoing failings?
Am I wrong? Is player retention now somehow not relevant? Seems a weird position for you to take, but you seem to favour sarcasm and insults over a consistent argument, so.
It is for continuing updates and DLC potential and overall continuation of the age series, however I’ve gotta agree with Minus here, they’ve already made their money off of most people, unless you play off gamepass (like I do) but I imagine that’s a minority.
They’ve already gotten paid, had what on paper was a relatively well received launch, probably already got paid their bonuses, had their holidays, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go one of two ways, either they double down ok DLC potential and therefore put a great deal of effort into fixing the state of the game currently, OR they move to a new project and leave us with small monthly patches.
Whichever of these sounds more likely I’ll leave up to you.
Also yes, this is the best way to send a message to the devs, a message that it isn’t worth their time and to move on bc they already made their money.
Yeah I have to add my voice to the “sitting out until next patch” wagon here. I just can’t continue playing a game with beta-grade bugs like when units refuse to attack, targeting messed up hitboxes (hello siege units in middle of an army), unbelievable unit clumps in between buildings, random siege slowdowns and accelerations disregarding the terrain, or a new building blueprint just disappearing a second after it is placed. Not to mention the absolutely atrocious auto-attack AI (I don’t know… prioritize units/buildings slider?).
I like playing this game with my friends until I ran into these tide-turning bugs. I want it to succeed… but I’m pretty disappointed with the current state to say the least :-/ I don’t have much hope until the Spring update.
This. It may signify something to someone… but the people in charge won’t care because there is no profit in it. Keeping face is not an issue for M$. They showed that many times before: Morals and the goodwill and reputation of their brands is not an important concept to them anymore. So all that is left is the power of the shekel.
It does both. Not sure what that has to do with this thread.
Oh yeah I feel you, I actually am considering waiting until they patch at least the ridiculously op bombards, I’m just saying that if everyone mass exoduses the devs may do a cost benefit analysis and determine the player count is no longer worth spending so much on continued development.
It’s an unfortunate truth to the way corporate structures work and look at their players as money generators and nothing more.
I truly hope this is not the case here and that the development team continues to put in serious work to fix the game, but the state of release and obvious push to get the game out for Christmas for maximum monetization does not bode well
Edit: I’d also love if they’d release more than one patch a month, they need to be doing hot fixes and quicker patches for these bug fixes and things that are as simple as changing values for health points or range. I’d really love to not be forced into waiting an entire month for a patch only basically for it to be a gamble that the thing I am hoping they fix (right now is bombards) is included.
Sorry, this is a a bit of an aside, but are you suggesting that developers shouldn’t be allowed their (often legally-protected) holidays?
Pay is a funny thing, because most games developers don’t get paid anywhere near the going rate for regular software work. For example, for a similar role, I’d have to take a moderate to substantial pay cut depending on the location and studio I wanted to work at (if I did - I’m pretty happy where I am at the moment).
Sure, the game is already paid for. But that’s irrelevant for someone making an individual choice to not play the game. It still sends a message to the developer. You seem to think that developers don’t care about the product they spent years making? I’m sure there are people that can do that, but it’s often not the case. A lot of video games are, factually, labours of love given the hard work, effort, and sheer number of hours that often goes into making them happen. Nobody wants a game to fail upfront, or founder after the fact.
I mean, I know you’re not a fan of waiting a month between patches. But the size is up for debate, because something could have a hundred fixes, and still be “small” because it doesn’t fix what the user wants it to fix. I’ve seen players (across any number of games) completely ignoring patch contents for reasons like that. A good example is Relic prioritising the framerate-while-scrolling issue, post-release. It’s quite obvious given that this was one of the first things they addressed that it was an absolute focus. But because as a consequence other things weren’t fixed, it was downplayed, ignored, or even ridiculed.
I share your hopes for hotfixes for key issues, I think the problem personally (with no knowledge of the decisions being made, so this is just a guess) is selling management on the cost-effectiveness of hotfixing specific things. Or maybe it’s still a ramp-up period, where in the future these hotfixes will be more regular, and we’re still seeing the cost of that now (the cost specifically being people getting fed up waiting for fixes and improvements).
Definitely a normal choice to use “shekel” here and not at all a strange thing when referring to US and Canadian companies.
Eh, maybe you’re Israeli.
No certainly not, everyone deserves their holidays (however not usually legally provided for in the private industry, legal obligation to let your employees off only applies to federal and municipal non-essential employees, take it from a cop who worked new years :p)
Maybe using the short term dev was misleading, I mean no insult to the literal developers and am referring the entire development studio and or producer when I say this, especially with bonuses which executives got but I doubt the lower level developers even saw.
Yeah I mean I admitted in my own post that I was biased to certain fixes, everyone has those things they want fixed.
I’d say all patches they’ve released have been “small” in scope, in my opinion.
100% reliant on management/executives being able to see profitability, I agree
One can be optimistic
Nobody cares. That is not our problem as consumers. If the game was not ready before christmas, maybe don’t release it (good lord, what a concept.) But that would cost them some of that sweet money.
Nobody cares, the price of the game is all that effects us as consumers. We are not responsible for how bad/good corpo treats their devs.
It doesn’t matter what an individual dev thinks. He is not the decision maker when it comes to continuing support for this game.
Because the game should NOT have released with all the bugs which are absolutely not related to the pressure of high player numbers (the only thing that cannot be simulated properly in-house).
Want the playerbase to test your broken piece of software? —> Early Access or GAAS. Not full price before christmas. It is a dick move no matter how you try to fluff it up.
You can pour as much praise as you want on individual roles and processes involved in making a game. It doesn’t matter. It is completely irrelevant to what the consumer gets in the end.
That should be the focus here. If you want to give a Ted talk about game dev life, go ahead.
This thread has nothing to do with that. OP is pissed about this obviously mediocre game and the absence of substancial change (just once be honest with yourself and look what all the M$ money and potential talent at relic gave us in the end), and @Yellowaoe suggested that OP should stfu and stop playing if he doesn’t like it (which is as childish as it gets).
I didn’t see Yellowaoe say “STFU” in his post at the top of the thread, but hey. You can say “that’s what he meant”, but that doesn’t make it real. It’s still you inventing something he didn’t say.
There’s nothing childish about advising someone to stop spending time on something they don’t enjoy. It is sound advice. You seem to have taken it incredibly personally for reasons that aren’t obvious.
If you think the game should’ve been delayed, that’s fine. It’s not something I’m going to argue against. If the OP is upset, they’re allowed to feel upset. It’s not something I’m going to argue against. But likewise, I see nothing wrong with “maybe put down the thing that’s making you upset and go do something else”.
It’s not healthy to fixate on something that’s making you mad for a long period of time. Factually. It just isn’t. For people that have no other option (i.e. for something serious, beyond the scope of video games as entertainment), is still isn’t, it just sucks more. So if you have the choice, definitely stop engaging with something that’s making you that upset. At least temporarily.
I have no idea why you’d call it “childish” advice. Maybe it’s because you read words that weren’t there in Yellowaoe’s initial post. Why you did that, I also have no idea. Maybe you’re taking out your issues with the game and related business decisions on anyone that dares be vaguely-positive about the game? I’d hope not, because that doesn’t sound healthy either.
Okay, let’s dissect the original post then.
You can see here, he begins by being condescending and insulting someone’s assumed social/monetary status
Insinuating again the person being poor
Bragging about money no one asked for or cares about.
Edit: the post yellow was replying to was just pointing out the fact that relic already made their money, a topic we’ve already covered.
And also implying that a game like AOE4 can be experienced properly within the 2h (steam) you can still get it refunded.
This also completely dismisses that OP was indeed not leaving the sinking ship right after jumping on, but stuck with the game and hoped for fixes.
So yes, his message was highly condescending and equal to straight up telling someone to stfu.
You love your diversion so much that even turning into Prof. Dr. GorbMort and giving life advice is not beneath you xD
Bad product —> Angry customer.
No need to give the customer life advice how to get over the bad product, lol. Imagine if someone did that to you. What a deeply condescending attitude.
Maybe that is just an american thing, and I’m too europoor to understand.
I’m able to understand GorbMort perfectly clear, I just think that you either are too ignorant and don’t want to listen, or you simply don’t understand it.
Judging by how you have been writing on these forums these past months, I think it’s that you are ignorant and don’t care or want to listen to what other has to say, it’s only “your way” that matters no matter what and that’s always been my issue with your posts.
Even if you have valid reason to feel this way, the way you are acting is the real issue here and is making you look immature in the process.
By the way, I’m from Europe so it’s not an “American” thing as you previously wrote, it’s called common sense.
Will you keep posting that every time now? I know you don’t like me and got your feels hurt somewhere along the way. I don’t care, sorry m8.
I think maybe that’s the problem. I don’t see the condescension. That said, even if it were there (and I agree that it’s arguable - I see how you can see it), there’s plenty of that going around. Look at Minus’ posts. I do my best to not let tone distract from a point that may be being made, even though it may be being made in bad faith.
Certainly, if that’s what you took from Yellowaoe’s post, fair enough. I don’t think that is enough to undermine the advice given though.
You not seeing the need doesn’t mean there’s not a need. And even if you can’t see the need, doesn’t mean you need to start an argument over it. There’s no need. But you choose to, that’s cool. Maybe allow other people the same choice for opinions you disagree with?
You know my positions on things because I never distract, avoid and dodge like you do. I don’t need to be nice about it. Neither do others. I totally accept @Yellowaoe to tell OP to STFU. But he has to also accept being called out for it when doing it in such an underhanded way and stand by it. Him thinking of everybody that didn’t refund in time as poor sods that need to earn more money is a perfectly fine (if not disgusting) opinion.
Just like how I called the decision makers filthy greedy by referring to a stereotype and you promptly called me out on it:
And he keeps on turning turning turning… I’ve been on the internet for a while, and you combine a lot of forum stereotypes into one.
It’s just interesting to NEVER see your own opinion about actual gameplay topics. It’s all about form and language of others posting, never about the topics. I have to tell you: That is not a healthy way to go around a game forum. It doesn’t lead you anywhere in life and maybe you should step back to prevent spiralling deeper. You can trust me, I’m a pilot.
He didn’t say this, either. At least not before you mockingly suggested he would refund the OP’s purchase.
You don’t see how you turned a perfectly understandable comment into a hostile tangent? No?
Thankyou for admitting to the antisemitic stereotype, by the by. Not very bright, but hey.
Presumably because I’m okay with the game as-is, despite understanding the problems other players are absolutely encountering. I’ve said what I’m waiting for enough times. It’s not on me if you haven’t read that, or don’t remember it.
The thread’s about someone being fed up with the state of the game, and folks’ responses to that. Everything I’ve posted has been relevant to that, or a specific reply to someone else.
I just don’t feel the advice was given in good faith and instead as more of a troll, plainly put.
It’s so obvious does it really need to be said?
Yeah I can quit playing the games, or I can complain on the fourms in hopes the devs might read them and get their shit into gear.
Or both.
Maybe we don’t want to stop playing we are just upset the game we anticipated for so long is crap and want to share our disappointment.
I only interjected in the first place because I could tell yellow was only saying those things out of spite, I’ve also seen his other posts, always condencending and holier than thou, and always defending this broken ass game.
Edit: and yes I’ve had some interaction with you also Gorb, not always agreeing but not always disagreeing either, that’s fine, however yellow has a tendency to not allow others to have their own opinions and to ostracize them, as this is a good example of.
Yeah, fair enough. Agree to disagree? I mean obviously there’s some history here with the specific poster I’m unaware of - I was invested in the rational of the argument (without the context) more than anything.
I’m not really invested in defending Yellowaoe in particular, and to be honest I don’t want to be boxed into doing so just because other people in the thread are also being similarly puritan (Minus, for example).