sniper your math is wrong you are forgetting they have 1.5 more range they won aginst all melee units and we are not discussing this we are talking about stats vs res look at this:
Equal resources when low number doesnât work. Ranged units work better than melee when massed.
Also, I am not saying that jans vs heavy knight are bad, but jans would not win that fight also.
your math is wrong I did NOT forget they have 1.5 extra range; vs ANY melee charging towards the mass that range difference will become negligent; and for those that optimize the range that differnce in range goes away after 5 shots⊠5!
14/2.12 < 16/1.75 EVEN when you divide those dps by respective cost?? So what exactly did you think you prove???
Also the HP of the Jans is based on the standard HC not the crossbow?
1 Like
5 shots you lost the half of your army and the firing number of crossbow if higer its more hard to catch janissary cost more tahn crossbow i hope you are calculating that too
i needed an example to calculate hp for castle age and their attack it seems calculated on crossbow
first janissary need to be at this stats that will make them still lesser than crossbow because crossbow has range advantage when their health raised they need the attack bonus tech since they are unique unit and like every unique unit they need to be stronger than their origin otherwise it wont be fair
Oh boy ! If i say simple increase for jans some ppl starting to bring down a meteor over my head calling everythin OP OP OP counterless etc. HAHAH needless to say anythingâŠ
Yea pls nerf jans xD
DONT YOU start it is normal jans are weak against ranged etc. etc. you are boring. If an unit is being countered THAT EXTREME at least i would expect them to be EXTREMELY PERFECT at what they are supposed to doâŠAnd whatâŠThey barely counter ZERO UPGRADE heavy cav. And they even cant counter upgraded 3rd age frank royal knights lolâŠ
OMG:âŠI knew jans are terrible but this âŠthis is not OK xD 11
Oh boy âŠ
6 Likes
Dude pls stop talking nonsenseâŠThis is clear wrong information.
Who has Pup practice access told us
Streltsy got the 44 attack bonus because they were standing still, thatâs circumstantial, what benefits them is their higher attack speed and has a greater range, being distance attack units the one who attacks first wins
Look again the video, they lost his attack speed the first shoot because the movement.
Can we think another time about the stats of streltsi and jans?
Streltsi has 42 attack whereas jans got 28 + 20 vs cav, they can do a max of 48 damage vs cav (6 more than streltsi), but they got 0.5 less range and 0.17 slowly attack speed.
This means that in 10 seconds streltsi will shoot 6 times and (not taking into account the speed buff stationary) jans would shoot 5 times. Total damage dealt for streltsi is 252 and for jans, vs cav is 240.
So, in conclusion, a unit that is a hard counter of another deal less damage over time that another that is generic. So streltsi is better vs cav than jans, thatâs the first conclusion.
Now we will do the same with standard HC.
HC has 42 attack at speed of 2.12, it means they will shoot 4 times (4.72) in 10 seconds, with a better range and near 28% more hp, dealing a total amount of 168 damage in 10 seconds.
Conclusion is jans are way better vs cav than normal HCs in the theory, without taking into account the less HP and less range.
What fascinates me now is how streltsi can be as powerful versus everything and jans are trash, just because they can repair siege.
5 Likes
that they increase their range to 4, the low range makes them inefficient, (for the record that I am not against the unit)
I think they can increase range to be same as HC but what they really need is to get more base damage and less damage to cav.
Something similar happened to camel archer, they increased base damage and lowered damage to spearmen.
2 Likes
It gets worse then that.
Each civ has something to boost its ranged infantry to the point jans are plain inferior. We covered Rus since thats in the video, but lets quickly go through the bonuses:
Abbasid - At most, they get +2 armor and +15% hp on their HCâs when a camel is nearby. Not the most flashy, but the extra durability and camel aura are just enough to let then trade pretty damn well vs cav, while still being as strong as a normal hc vs melee infantry.
Chinese - The extra range from pyrotechnics is a bigger deal than some might think since it means that they canât be kited by generic ranged infantry. The only generic counter is mangs and needs better siege micro to pull off.
Delhi - Hand cannoneers can be like expensive streltsy with ToV. +20% attack speed at all times without the windup. They still have scholars and zeal for that +50% attack speed while being healed. Then there also forced march to get into and out of fights.
English - +25% attack speed near a keep/TC/tower. + 50% in imperial age.
French - They get the keep discount like all the other French range infantry and cav. That puts them at a 180 res cost - same as streltsy - and also makes then on of the most cost effective variants of the unit.
HRE - With prelates being more or less fully functional, they can now give HCâs +15% damage and +1 armor. They can also heal them at the same time. For as simple a boost this is, its actually one of the strongest, and pairs nicely with culverin to deal with any mangs.
Mongols - Closest to generic, they have only the yam aura as an extra boost. Thats enough to gap close or escape most infantry units. Mostly redundant vs melee infantry since hcâs destroy then no matter what, but its pretty good when you need to gap close or escape vs higher range units.
Malians - They have a higher base attack and speed for no particular reason. With the mobility aura of sofa horsemen, they run at 1.44 move speed. Thats and invisibilty makes them the best kiting unit on two legs.
Compare Elite Janissaries to any of this, add mehters if you want, it looks pretty sad.
6 Likes
And as other user said, Jans ability to protect siege from cavalry is unreal since 9/10 times they get destroyed by other siege (mostly springalds).
5 Likes
Then why do devs decide jans as siege protector? As you said siege units can be destroyed by other siege units. I think devs have confused about jans role at the battle.
3 Likes
Sorry I only saw now you tagged me now. I stopped following this thread because it turned into a cyclic argument with alt accounts favoriting themselves
Iâve blocked almost everyone in this thread. So it looks almost like a one sided argument
I wouldve sent this as a private message but doesnât seem to let me
It is what it is:
According to the copium camp, the englishs vils were proven op here since the are cheap enough to win alot of fights in even res. Apparently they have the infinite pop version of the game where you start with 7 TCâs, idk.
1 Like
they opened a new thread just for that Janissary Vs Villagers
new video what you guys think
Yeah these latest vids were a good laugh. But memes aside, lets take advantage of the silence of the trolls to get back to the crux of the matter. The threads attracted opinions that jans were good for anything at all and defending our position bogged the real talk down - brainstorm changes to actually fix this.
With the benefit of Farm Mans videos as a baseline for the most generous interpretation of the janissaries abilities; the jan is just too weak to justify its weaknesses. It loses with even res to maxed royal knights (sans keep influence at that), tower elephants that kite, regular HCs. Itâs basic dps per cost is fine and weâve known that forever - the issue highlighted is that itâs really easy to deny it from dealing that damage. At minimum at needs a move speed but to 1.25 tiles/sec base and then one more to either its range or durability.
Increasing the range to 4.5 or even 5 wont much change its direct fighting ability vs ranged infantry, itâll still lose with even res. It can however at least return fire with archers/xbows and win by kiting against HCâs. More, a critical mass would do more damage in a tight clump - meaning they would be more effective vs melee units. Now, you have a rescaled gunpowder unit that, while technically weaker in a direct shootout, is at least more tactically applicable than its standard counterpart.
Otherwise, give it +3/4/5 melee armor such that it can actually beat maa in even res. If they really have to be siege baby sitters and nothing else then they should be able to hold a frontline vs melee units in a mass. Id think any amount of durabilty that lets it stand up to maa should let it properly counter knights on its own.
1 Like