why ashi speed 4.5 ???
so nasty
Japan is not stronger then Swedes…
Torps > shrines
Carolean in most cases I have seen > Ashikaru
Swedish cards for mercenaries > daimio.
Also Swedes have way stronger potential in terms of both unit composition as eco. They will autoproduce Japan and can make caroleons + massed artillery (as soon as age 2 because of leather cannon) and basically you cant do much about it.
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Shrines are not as OP as you state here. A shrine will produce with all 4 hunts ~28 food and 24 coin or wood.
A shrine costs 125 wood, which is compareable with the British manor houses which cost 10 more but give a settler which will have halmost triple the gatherrate of a fully stocked shrine.
Japan cant hunt either, so they are limited to a cherry orchard which has the gather rate of an European mill, this means building a mill for Europeans is the same as the Japanese thus both can “boom” in peace and arguable Japanese are a bit weaker here because not all hunts are near base.
The two cards from deck is not at all equel to 50 cards total. Most of the double cards are units, which is a nice bonus, but also uses still one of your shipment, its not that good as most civs have infinite unit cards for industrial age and the double unit cards will take up space for economic cards.
All in all, Japan is good. Definatly one of the higher tiers, but also not at all too OP, basically all European civs can beat them if you just play it right. And the playing right part isnt some pro ■■■■, but just knowing what to do when facing Japan.
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I suppose this is per minute.
The shrine also depends on the animal it mesmerizes. The bigger the animal, the more bonus.
But yeah, it is around 0.4-0.5 food per second with 4 hunts. Less than a non-upgraded villi in best case scenario.
I’m glad that Japan finally got the nerf for the first time, but that nerf is completely wrong. What we ask of Japan is that their boom is hard to punish, not that they should get weaker early on. Japan, with one food box removed, simply annoys the other with turtling.
I am also disappointed that this is no nerf for team play or treaty.
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Apologies forgot to add 0. So yeah its 0.28 etc.
The 0.5 I believe is only when you have send the card for increased rate.
The Japanese are just as punishable as any other civ, how would you punish British player manor booming and not hunting but building mills?
Its the same as Japanese. Both boom with houses thus need wood and both are gathering food inside town area thus harder to raid. Japanese have surely a safe boom, but almost every civ has that possibility. The reason British wont build mills early on is because the reward of hunting is higher then the risk of losing your vills.
So why don’t you create another post for nerfing British manor boom?
Actually British age1 card for reducing manor cost is also too OP.
We are talking Japan but sometimes appeared Sweden is more OP or British is more OP.
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I am not making a post about because its not that OP ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Portugueze can also safe boom, of which their town centers per age will protect their settlers in hunting. They can also just make mills, should I make a post about every European civ to nerf them? Japanese isnt unique in this, you are making it to be to push your agenda to nerf Japan, because you dont know what to do to beat them.
If you consider every European civ is OP, that is not OP.
Once again, with an age1 card, eco houses become cheaper than a normal 100w/10p house is ridiculous, even British manor. They worth much more than 300w cost for an age1 card and make the boom speed too quick.
I dont… Thats what I am trying to tell you. All civs have strengths and weaknesses. I am not disagreeing that Japanese and British arent good. They are good in certain ways and are definatly in the higher league. Are they OP or in other words broken? No they are not.
Portugueze get a free 500 wood town center per age up, above the usual age up advisor. In almost every game the British or Japanese player will have spent no more really then 500 wood for their houses before aging up. Seeing the town center in its own is also very good, I dont see a huge power difference. The British and Japanese comparrison is because they have a similar bonus of a unique house which will in some sort or way increase the gatherrate.
All European civs really are comparible to Japanese, there is no huge difference. Note that I say no huge, because there will always be some.
We all know that ashigaru is not OP because:
- Many other European civs can make musketeers.
- Every other European civ will not run their musketeers into artillery, and neither does Japan.
- You can counter ashigaru with skirmishers.
- Ashigaru has higher speed so they can sometimes HR skirmishers, which is dangerous, while other musketeers do not have this problem because no one uses them to HR skirmishers.
- India has better musketeer in the early game and Sweden in the late game.
- Japanese players still need to make units other than ashigaru.
I agree all civs have their own strength, but some of them are too over, that’s why they are OP.
For Japan are considered OP for more than 10 years and continuing, most of reasons were discussed already. However FE based on the most OP point of Japan to create two new civs, which I don’t think they will do anything on houses for balance.
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I considered them for a long time also as OP, but now I noticed that they really arent that hard to beat. Maybe you just playing against strong rated Japanese players.
Honestly I think Japan is one of the best balanced civs and how other civs should be. Other civs might just be underbalanced. Japan has a counter to all which honestly all civ should have. They have an answer to gendarme spam which also all civs should have (and europeans have with the advanced saloon card). They have a nice economic boost and have good midgane and decent end, thats how a good civ should really be balanced.
In my opinion British, Swedes, Incas, French, Portugueze, Dutch, Germans are on part in terms of strength with small differences compared to Japanese.
Instead of looking purely at Japanese bonusses, you should look which civs cab beat them effecticly of which the previous definatly can.
It’s very tiring to use Britain as an example to mention the problem with Japan.
Settlers are not house. And they must either avoid attacks or move to find new resources. In the meantime, you’re right if settlers create resources without taking any action.
It is also an excuse that Japanese villagers cannot hunt. wood and coins they harvest are no different from European settlers. Japan has many avenues to replenish food.
There may be no problems with Ashigaru or Yumi themselves, but the bonuses they receive are too many. Also, Ashigaru’s 4.5 makes many people tired. It is certainly possible to have an absolute predominance in positioning.
Some players make comparisons with other civilizations and claim that the differences are convincing because Japan has a different personality from other civilizations, but they forget that because Japan has a different personality from other civilizations, the differences cannot be convinced.
And I am very disappointed that the nerf Japan received this time is only a deepening of Japan’s weakness that it can eventually be overcome through the early rush. It’s obviously wrong balancing to anyone who sees forcing only one strategy to counter Japan, which means that you must win if you succeed in the early rush and must lose if you fail in the early rush.
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Japan is both beatable in rush as in late game, Japanese eco late game is pretty sheit. They mostly shine in either rushing themselfs or midgame.
In late game their 20 shrines will produce less then 1 European factory. So you are basically forced to get the tech for 300% gatherrate for shrines and then it becomes basically the same as two factories. Problem with this? Japan only has 75 villagers.
Also you might get tired of the British comparrison because its just the truth. Its a fair comparrison. It doesnt matter the settler has to move, because it makes it up by the gather rate. It has almost triple the gather rate then a shrine. Arguable making them better. Just put them on a mill and you are good.
I am playing team game since original aoe3, from TAD until now, I didn’t see anyone I know (unless his main civ is Japan) said Japan is not OP, and tier team list from most of players are putting Japan in tier S.
The main point is, I had several fixed team game groups to play with since TAD (guys known from original AOE3), whoever used Japan can mostly be the strongest in the game, no matter he is noob or pro.
However AOE3DE now has Sweden and Inca, just made Japan not so obvious OP as before.
For 1v1, because Japan protectors will keep on saying rush them and prevent them booming is ok, but this is totally not work in team game, that’s why most team game players will say team game balance is totally mess and they are tired to say anymore for balance.
If you want to say the game is mainly for 1v1 supremacy, but dev even had balanced for treaty game, and team game and 1v1 balance is not absolutely related, this problem won’t be solved by not deducting or increasing their starting crate.
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Exactly! They are the same, meaning they can be raided.
Until the mid to late fortress age, at which point everyone is working on plantations anyway.
factory must use the card. And it cannot be reconstructed again. While European countries transport factories, Japan can receive units or other upgrade cards. Even they can get the same card twice, so cards are never wasted.
Factory can be acquired by industrial era. But the shrine is not. If you have enough wood, the shrine can be constantly rebuilt. And usually, you can get enough wood to rebuild a shrine with only 20 shrines.
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Well, near the TC there are one or two mines and a small number of trees that are safe from enemy raids. Besides, Japan also has cherries. They don’t need to hunt, so they can get food slowly but safely next to the TC.