Japan is too op! Please Nerf Japan!

Here is a simple calculation.

Japan vils gather food rate 0.67/s
Normal vils gather herd food rate 0.84/s
Even we assume normal vils don’t need to walk and shoot.

Now Japan and normal civ are both 15 vils,
Japan gets 10.05/s and normal civ get 12.6/s
Because of raiding normal vils need to run for 10 sec in 1 minute for average.
So every minute Japan can get 603 food and normal civs can get 630 food.
Japan still has shrine each for 0.42f/s = 25 food/min, means 1 shrine can compensate the loss due to Japan can’t hunt for 15 vils, addition shrines are earning for Japan.

If normal civs lose only 1 villager (very easy) during hunt, they are losing not only 100 food plus gather rate, meaning normal civs will become gathering 488 food per minute only.

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“But Dutch would not place their banks in the middle of the map and you can still siege the shrines.”

The wood near TC is like 1200 wood or something. Not enoughto finish the shrines.

I dont know what type of games you are playing but I dont have every game every minute that my settlers get raided.

I can also give some stats on this from a different perspective. In age 1 you can obviously not raid players and usually you will have hunted atleast one group of herds and maybe 2 when you hit in a casual game around 4-5 minutes age 2.

So the first 4 minutes you will have gathered with 6 settlers 1209 food (of course you can have more settlers but lets have it simplified)

Japan will have in 4 minutes with 6 villagers gathered 964. Of course Japan can build shrines, but they really wont have build more than 1-3 before aging up, which would only total ~134 food extra. Thats about 100 resources less for Japan, also considering that Japan has lost more resources to get to this number because of shrine costing 25 more wood.

This isnt a huge gap which is the point, Shrines wont replace basic needs. If you continue to age II, and lets say the European player either got the 400 wood or 1 outpost and 200 coin he can build an outpost to hunts further away. This will basically protect the settlers entirely and unless the enemy team want to continue sieging the outpost you wont have to be idle too long.

Then looking at the gatherrates in age 2, Japan can only increase their berry gather rate by a meager 15% while the Europeand can increase it by double that, 30%. This will basically also negate the extra shrines Japanese can build and still counting a bit of idling for European the total gathering will still be almost the same.

This is also negating the fact that Japanese still have two other resources which need to be gathered, the Shrine only collects 1. Japan is thus also subject to raiding and basically the whole gatherrate wont differ much.

When looking at mills and rice paddys for when people switch in age III/IV Europeans can get just like Japan for paddys 95% increase with upgrades. So maybe in later stages when both switch to mills and paddys you will see the shrines effect, but that ignores many of the European unique economy bonusses. Like French having better settlers, same for Germans. Dutch being able to build banks which is more cost effectice then Shrines, etc etc. Really Japanese shrines are basically just necissary because Japan cant hunt it isnt that OP and gatherrates barely differ.

(Also totally on a side note, I believe you said hunting enemy herds wasnt a strategy, but I found it pretty funny that when I was looking foor deer stats I found this: Lame deer hunting - Age of Empires III Heaven Forum its exactly described as I did in my comment)

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There is literally no way someone can raid that much. If they do, they probably don’t have much of a standing army, a simple push with pikes and muskets seals the deal.

Every minute is average.
What I always face is as long as my vils can’t hide in tc in 2 sec or defended by wall my opponents will just keep raiding my vils without leaving away.

Raiding vils does not conflict he train army or not, only I can’t train due to keep being raided

so lame
where is strategy
make ashi or yumis and back their home by 4.5speed
no risk and high return
most safety eco and they have so huge sight
i always feel i play handicap match

worst game design and no game dynamism

i hope Sir.Developer watching this discussion

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This honestly sounds like a skill issue. And Japan isn’t even the best at raiding, how do you deal with French or Lakota or God forbid, Opriknisk?

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They have the same safety as basically any other civ.

Dutch can also just build mills in their town and banks and be done for the rest of the game, is this op? No.

British can just build mills inside their town and manor boom on wood, is this op? Not really.

Portugueze can extend their town on every age up and boom in all safety on mills and have faster settler production, is this op? Nein.

I can continue this for basically every civ. Japans eco is about as safe as any other civ of atleast all Europeans.

Japan still needs two of the other resources he hasnt selected in the shrine, in early to mid game it basically has to be on food or you wont make as much food as other civs. Japan still needs wood and coin around the map it really is just the same.

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How do you gather any resources? In 2 sec? I know this is to demonstrate that you want to be quick in town and not literally 2 sec, but how do you gather wood? Or from mines? Do you imeadiatly build a plantation when they are gone in your town? You just trade your food and coin for wood?

I mean people seem to forget that Japan also needs resources on the map, it needa wood, coin and food like any other civ.

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dude 12.6food/s is 756 food/min not 630food/min

u really play this game on h2h?
all high rank player feel same nasty like me

by the way, my pr is 1800 over
this is more than god garja

Just look at the numbers and stats, there is no reason to complain about the shrines. Their cards are also nothing special in sense of gamebreaking, only thing that is a bit broken is the daimio but that doesnt make the whole civ OP ad basically building a forward barracks does the same.

And that same brilliant logic is back again!

Next episode:
Ashigaru is not OP basically making musketeers does the same.

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You know nobody takes you seriously with those empty comments?

Reusing your very logic is “empty comments”?
Boy you should at least take yourself seriously.

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he dont know how TAD died

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I will be glad to play against your opponents those they don’t raid so hard your vils.

They just need to stay at home turtle with wall is OP enough, other civs need to go out for hunt, this was told many times and you still don’t understand… and I keep talking cherry orchard and hunting, but you start to mention wood and coin?


First, this is 10 second distance for a villager to walk, is not too far from TC. Some of you guys seems surprise 10 second is very far from TC.


Second, Japan only need to wall like this for they can turtle safely until gold mines and cherry orchard finished, which other civs can’t, plus DE stupid herds keep leaving from TC so quickly, with just 1 min, they have already left the edge of screen without control.

Finally, Japan are able to build full pop shrines around 6~7 mins with around 22 vils.



Which they are having 22 vils plus shrine with heavenly kami card around 16 vils for gold, totally near 40 vils before 7 mins and they are just keep turtling at base, and they don’t like Dutch as bank only provide gold trickle, Japan get full 200 pop and are able to change what resource they lack, and they are THE SAFEST in whole game.

I think you get the wrong way?

When do I say Japan is the best at raiding and I face many Japan raiding?

No,but you are somehow complaining that you cannot hunt while Japan is out and about, due to raiding.
Also, that map you linked is one of the few maps that feature 2 mines at start. Most don’t.