To add on to how busted they are, they cost the same as a Keshik but have about x2 HP, x1.5 range HP and 25% more attack and they can be trained individually.
This is just for Hausa, but to get to max they only need 1 card while keshiks requires 4 (+brit consulate) and by the end this is the comparison
Same attack and ROF as a Keshik, 2 more range , x1.5 more HP and x1.13 more range HP. All while costing less then a keshik because a keshik had its cost increase with Old Dynasty reforms. and to top it off it can be trained individually.
Javs and Raiders are basically Keshiks and Steppe riders with free Old Dynasty reforms
3 Likes
21 hand damage x5 bonuses?!
WTF?! like reallyā¦ do they even do the math on these things or just pick random numbers?! smh
and Iām here chasing cav with my Janissaries @ 4 speedā¦ w/ 15 damage 2x bonuses
2 Likes
Damage is not the problem, HP is.
1 Like
bro EVERYTHING is wrong with the unit. they are best in class above everything else vs cavalry
4 Likes
TBH, 21x5 doesnāt sound that bad in imperial age. There are units that do far more than that.
Itās the HP thatās the problem.
Their main issues are tankiness and spammability. They can be easily massed and when massed they dominate everything, and you cannot easily break that critical mass, even when using their counters.
They make look specialized against cav but in reality they are good all round units, the type of backbone unit musketeer is, but this is just mounted and has more HP.
2 Likes
eh what unit does that much damage?
the only unit with comparable damage is a completely maxed out uhlan and that caps out ot 94 atk iirc
not including the fact that uhlans cost 2 pop
War wagons do something in the range of 200-300 against cavalry.
Also Iām counting cannons, mercs, limited edition units, etc.
1 Like
ok my bad didnt see that was imperial age stats . still x5 baseline (age2 stats) means the scaling gets ridiculous with any buffs
1 Like
Itās just the 210 hp that stands out to me, for 1 pop.
1 Like
right but all those units cost more and also take up more pop space,
just to compare it to war wagons
Maxed out -
war wagons deal 277 with 3 ROF to cav so 92 DPS
3 Javs deal 252 with 1.5 ROF to cav so 504 DPS
3 Likes
Even so i think their damage output is manageable as long as they die quicker.
1 Like
itās proper that they gave them strong hand attack vs hand cav because they made them UNABLE to outrun hussars and many other hand cav in game.
1 Like
after losing 20 hp in the pup beta they now trade evenly with jans and skirms, and still beat muskets with a good margin. interestingly they perform similarly against abus, 20 javelin riders still convincingly beat 16 abus guns despite being cheaper and the 12 pop difference.
they are still by far the best generalist 1 pop light cav in the game and their ranged damage output per pop vs heavy cav with the card is also best in class. they also have the highest raw hp, melee hp, and ranged hp per pop in their class despite losing 20 hp.
their melee performance vs hussars is unchanged with them trading evenly with 2 pop hussars in melee and outperforming dedicated 1 pop heavy infantry like jans, ashigaru with melee bonus card, and rodeleros and performing similarly to the more expensive halberdiers.
fantastic unit.
6 Likes
I think the devs are being very conservative with the unit nerfs cause they are kinda nerfing African civs from a lot of angles, influence mechanic is being changed, whole bunch of shipments removed and edited. The overall effect might be that the civs are balanced with some key OP units, if they are still problematic then it can be dealt with later. Still want a keshik buff to compensate for this.
2 Likes
the HP nerf is surely a step in the right direction. I think that with the overall nerfs to affrican civs (this was probably the greatest wave of nerfs in the game history), it might turn out ok.
1 Like
how do you access the beta you referenced?
Javelin Riders were nerfed in the Septemberās Update Preview Patch but Hausa and Ethiopia also deserve nerfs at the influence they are getting from Sangas and Goats. This feature makes them very solid in terms of spawning Mercenaries which are damn OP in certain Supremacy build orders.
I donāt think thatās an issue. Ethiopia donāt get free cattle so you need to spend 100 gold on each one and you need several markets for that alone to be a solid income. Even with hausa free cattle, itās not like you can just task villagers to influence so any investment in cattle takes a long time to pay off, no issue at all in supremacy.
Compared to germany for example they can just put all vills on gold and spam mercenaries much more reliable than the africans.
Influence costs were nerfed already in PUP, weāll see how it goes.
1 Like
