[Just for fun] Unique Units for hypothetical new civs

You’re right.

You’re right again.

Don’t forget ballistics.

Malians composition costs too much food - knight, camel, champskarl all are food units. Gbeto is hard to afford. This one cost wood so easier to afford.

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I think the thing that currently holds back the gbeto the most is the long attack delay.
The thing is, I don’t have the technical insight how this exactly works, even with watching explanation videso about it. That’s why I usually just don’t post any frame/attack delay values in my proposals.
I generally like units that are fairly easy to micro and have a shorter atk delay, though it shouldn’t be 0 as this just makes it abnoxious.

But I think if you want a pierce attack Gbeto, you presumably want one that behaves more like an archer, therefore I think you want a shorter attack delay. But that’s just my interpretation.
Also reflecting that generally melee atk > pierce atk, so the unit should get something to compensate.

Maybe it would be good for malians if then the Gbeto cost is just adjusted to cost wood instead? Maybe even associated with the change to pierce attack (As malians other composition usually is melee, too)?
But clearly, wood instead of food cost is a tweak to compensate for going from melee to pierce attack.

I am just not a fan from completely copying unit stats. Yes, you can take big inspiration from the Gbeto, but just copy-paste stats is weird. Especially as the Gbeto currently isn’t much used, despite having the generally superior Melee attack.

I don’t know much either. So I didn’t suggest any change.

Ballistic and not costing food are huge compensation. Also 35,45 is a low HP bar for an infantry. But for an archer that’s literally normal. So in the end it is 2 less range for 2x attack and huge speed boost compared to generic xbow, arbalest.

I get it. I’m lazy. So just went through copy-paste. Hopefully everyone got the idea what type of new UU I’m suggesting.

What about a civi that can research castle UT techs from the tc or has multiple UT’s like in r@w mod?

UT that will convert all fishing ships to war ships.pretty much FR on water.

A bit similar unit.

A foot archer version of Arambai.

Cost : 55w/40g
TT : 14 seconds
HP : 40, 45
Attack : 10, 12 (Doesn’t improve by blacksmith techs)
Attack Bonus : +2 vs Ram
Stray projectile damage : 100%
ROF : 2.0 (TR doesn’t improve ROF for balance purpose)
Frame Delay : 15
Attack Delay : 0.5
Range : 6
Accuracy : 20%, 30%
Projectile Speed : 7
MA : 0
PA : 0, 1
Armor Class : Archer, UU
Speed : 0.9
LOS : 7
Upgrade Cost : 850f/800g
Upgrade Time : 45 seconds

Imperial Hussar.

Unique upgrade to Hussar.

Cost : 80f
TT : 27 seconds
HP : 90
Attack : 8
Attack Bonus : +15 vs Monk
ROF : 1.9
MA : 0
PA : 3
Armor Class : Cavalry
Speed : 1.55
LOS : 10

Upgrade cost : 750f/900g
Upgrade time : 75 seconds

I’m reminded way too much of Winged Hussars.
I do see a noticeable difference, in favouring survival over offence, but I would rather see something like an Imperial Steppe Lancer or something.

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Also, just to mention… A few people might be offended by a unit outshining the Magyar Huszar… :wink:

I had suggested giving a unit like this for the Wends (who aimed to cover the West Slavic people like Poles) before we learned the Poles were on the way.

Then, the devs decided to create Winged Hussar that replaces Hussar directly rather than be the next stage. Maybe we can think the reason.

Yeah that’s the inspiration.

Thanks. I tried my best to make them as different as possible.

Less base attack and ROF. MH will still be better in melee. If anything outshine MH, it is Winged Hussar.

Here we go

Imperial Steppe Lancer
Cost : 70f/40g
TT : 24 seconds
HP : 100
Attack : 12
ROF : 2.0
MA : 1
PA : 1
Armor Class : Cavalry
Speed : 1.45
LOS : 5

I just had an idea for a new entire type of units.

A “Hybrid Infantry” Unit.

Two examples how one could be:

A) Roman Legionary - an Infantry unit that can throw 3 Javelins (Recharging at a low speed)

B) Squire: An Infantry unit that spawns on a horse. It can’t fight while on a Horse and whenever it get’s on foot the ability to mount needs to recharge.

As you can see for both of these a recharge of the special stand/ability is required. But potentially there are also designs that don’t require a recharge.

Creative ideas?
(If I likie the ideas I might possibly be intrigued to make a stat concept for the unit, explaining some interactions etc.)

Legionary is already a term used in the game.
Throwing multiple javelins at a time like Hul’che Javelineers? Otherwise how would it charge?

Btw, this reminds me of what was described in previous game texts that Mongolian cavalry equiped with about two javelins per man, and they thrown the javelins at the opponent first when they charged to a sufficient distance from the opponent.

Already a term used in the game too.

This should not use the charging bar design, because I guess your original intention is not to let it lose cavalry mode as soon as it is fully charged due to combat. It is inappropriate to use charging to control two modes with different speeds.

It can be a cavalry when it is trained so it can just arrive the frontline quickly, but easily turn into infantry once it enters or meets a fight and cannot return to cavalry, which is somewhat similar to a Konnik-like unit with a very weak mounted mode and a strong unmounted mode.

Or, If it is like giving players more control over mode switching, it can be a Ratha-like unit with cavalry mode and infantry modes. When it launched an attack it would become infantry, and when it want to return to cavalry it should click the button to switch the modes, but the switching would take a time and can be interrupted by an opponent’s attack.

Or, just let it be a pure infantry, but move very fast, and when it moves, its animation is as riding a horse.

Like the shrivamsha charge? Just take 1/3 of the full charge away every time it is used

???
never heard that word in this context 11

I think it’s totally fine to make it charge up, whenever you turn it to become infantry and being able to attack you can’t just immediately go up the horse again. This would make it basically a Knight without the armor class. But when you just add a recharge to it, you would still be able to ride to the opponent, attack and fall back after a time

No, it’s intentnded that the mobility is only for the movement and not to be used in the battle. The recharge time is also there for giving the opponent some time to react before you can pull back.
In my vision the Squire would be faster than Knights, so it can outrun most opponent units that can beat it.
But if you leave your horse to attack it opens a time window for the opponent to strike.

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Haven’t you thought about what happens when it is charged to 100% while it is fighting?
It will continue to maintain infantry status in order to fight, so that the charging bar will immediately reset to zero to abandon the mount. Even if the opponent’s unit is killed in the next instant and the battle is over, it still needs to wait to recharge again. If there’s another unit that happens to be mounted because it’s charged to 100% at that moment, the speed between the two units won’t be consistent. It is inconvenient to control like this because the player cannot have more control over switching between modes.

You can make it just Ratha-like. Switching from cavalry mode to infantry mode is instant, but vice versa takes time. Once a battle occurs in cavalry mode, it will be forced to switch to infantry mode instantly. I think this is more in line with your original description.

Only if you prigarm it like this 11
I think the devs are clever enough to only deplete the charge when you actually use the feature.
But this will ofc means that the Squire will probably not automatically go to battle mode when attacked. Which I also support. The unit needs to be cared of a little, which I actually support.

That Ratha feature was actually already already somewhat inherit to the idea. Sorry if this wasn’t clear enough. But iwhen you switch to foot/fighting mode there is an additional charge bar that needs to be recharged before you can go to riding mode again.

Not in terms of actually “changing mode” like with trebuchets. I think it’s quite important that when there is the need for it and you have been long enough on foot for the recharge you should be able to retreat instant at any given time. Otherwise the feature would be almost worthless after the first movement over the map

No, this is exactly what I don’t want. I want the player to be able to decide what fight he takes as long as he is one the riding mode. The movement restriction in the fighting mode and the recharge will make it hard enough to manouver in the actual battle.
I also want the players to be able to get a good initial engagement if they micro the units well. I think it’s actually a good way to induce more micro potential into an “Infantry” unit. It’s even more revarding good micro than with other cavalry, as you are not able to try get a new, better engagement if your first attempt wasn’t as good as you’d like.
Imagine a battle with archers. You have basically 1 chance to get a good surround. If you don’t you are screwed.


But the post wasn’t really to justify my unit concepts…
I wanted to bring your creative juices in flow.
The blunt concepts are just there to give you an abstract Idea what it could look like. I didn’t wanted to spoil too much, as being spoiled is the best way to undermine your own creativity.

Any new ideas for a Hybrid Infantry (or other hybrid units)?

Anti archer cavalry
Mounted Huskarl

Cost : 65f/65g
TT : 17 seconds
HP : 90, 115
Attack : 10, 12
Attack Bonus : +5, +8 vs archer
ROF : 1.8
MA : 0
PA : 5, 6
Armor Class : Cavalry, UU
Speed : 1.4
LOS : 5
Upgrade Cost : 975f/650g
Upgrade Time : 45 seconds

Knights also counter eagles, not just the militia line. Plus any unique infantry unit + Cataphracts + high damage ranged units with a meat shield in front. Even scout line can soft-counter eagles with more numbers or better upgrades.

As for new civs, I’d like to see Chinese split into smaller civs like what they did with Indians, with one civ still remaining the same as Chinese but under a different name. One of the new unique units could be those sitting leg archers who hold their giant bows horizontally with their feet and pull the string back with both hands from a lying down position, like they did in the movie House of Flying Daggers. Damage per shot would be slightly less than scorpions, but less accurate and less mobile than archers, since they have to lie down to shoot and take longer to reload. Lots of dynasties to choose from in Chinese history; the main ones being: Shang, Zhou, Qin, Han, Sui, Tang, Song, Yuan, Ming, and Qing.

That’s how the charging units like Coustillier and Shrivamsha Rider were programmed.
When charged to 100%, the effect will be triggered automatically once Coustillier launches an attack or Shrivamsha Rider is attack by ranged damage.
When people talk about charging, I believe that’s basically what they’re referring to.

You got it wrong. What I stating was not that the cavalry will change into infantry as soon as it takes damage, but that it will be forced to change into infantry when he is about to launch an attack.

I believe that a unit with only one type is more popular than a unit that can switch between multiple types.

No Chinese sources describing the presence of such units in the Chinese military can be found.
I believe such units are largely based on fictional creations of entertainment works or performances of traditional martial arts.

If you’re talking about crossbows instead of bows, there have been crossbows that required the use of legs, whether in China or Europe.

Basing on specific dynasty is the worst way to split the Chinese civ.
The Shang in AoE1 is such a bad example.

Anti-siege Infantry (As we don’t have any other than Eagles which is not an UU)
Cost : 60f/30g
HP : 70, 85
Attack : 7, 8
Attack Bonus : vs siege +6, +8, vs ram +2
ROF : 2.0
Armor : 0/3, 1/4
Speed : 1.2
LOS : 5
Upgrade cost : 850f + 650g

UU of the Tibetans: Sling Cavalry

According to the records, when a war broke out, in order to organize the army, the nobles would recruit herdsmen as cavalry and peasants as infantry. Most of the nobles organized heavy infantry troops, which became the core of the army, supported by cavalry troops organized by a few other nobles. In mountainous Tibet, infantry also had an advantage over cavalry.

In Chinese records, the famous Chinese general Gao Xianzhi commented on the army of the Tibetan Empire as “not good at cavalry and mounted archery, but the infantry is exceptionally brave and good at fighting”. Because of the fear of their heavy infantry, the Chinese also specifically requested that the place where the representatives of the two sides meet must agree on flat ground rather than mountainous areas to avoid ambushes.

When looking for information, pictures of gorgeous Tibetan cavalry armor are impressive, but those were mostly imported from surrounding countries like Tang Empire of China, because Tibetans in the Middle Ages do not seem to have such advanced armor-making technology. We can infer that their cavalry were not their most important part in the warfare and usually not the key to victory on the battlefield.

Also, Tibetans in the Middle Ages paid less attention to mounted archery too. Soldiers honored spears and slings rather than bows and arrows. In contrast, since slings were used when herding goats and yaks in ordinary days, the cavalry composed of herdsmen were quite good at using slings. Furthermore, due to their mythological influence, the bow was considered evil weapons, while the sling was holy.

The Tibetan word for the sling is “འུར་རྡོ”, which is pronounced close to “Wuerdo”, “rdo”, “urdo” or “`urrdo”, and is often made of yak or goat wool. In the East Asia, only Tibetans seem to have a clear tradition of using slings. I want this unit to have an attack bonus against units that this civ is less good at, to be a support for the main units. Also, to make it special, its projectiles can do 0.5 or 1 splash damage in a 0.5 or 1 radius.