Malta S tier is very questionable, it’s 1 of the weakest civs imo, mexico as well is no where near S tier. Ethiopia got nerfed hard as well at the most they’d be low b tier.
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Lakota is a FREE ELO civ and has been since before the “rework”. They need nerfing so bad, they’re unbeatable.
Agree with this first tier list. All civs C and below need some buff, esp. Port and Inca. Only Rus and Otto have NEVER been changed a tiny bit all these years. China is broken.
Russia and the Ottomans should also be in the 3/5 position at the lowest. Although these two camps have not changed, the Ottoman Empire relies on his powerful individual soldier quality and characteristic heavy artillery, and Russia relies on his road roller-like crowd tactics. Aztec and Sioux should not be ranked so high. Civilizations without artillery sometimes have obvious disadvantages.
you dont need artillery, at all, to be strong in 1v1 supremacy. If we are talking more unusual game modes, such as treaty then yes they are at a disadvantage. But for 1v1 artillery isn’t the quality that makes or breaks a civ. Most games germany wont use artillery either and they’re easily a top 1v1 civ.
i would argue that otto might be placed slightly higher, but otherwise i find no fault in this. Excellent tier chart
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However, Although there are artillery advantages, Russia and Turkey do need to change the two traditional countries of Russia and Turkey do need to change. Since the game was released in 2007, it has not changed. Russia needs powerful units, and Turkey needs cheaper infantry.
… Russia’s whole design is vomiting out cheap infantry and strong cavalry. they dont need strong infantry. Maybe a few extra population space like china and maybe a few % added to strelets and ruskets through some sorta upgrades but no, we dont need a civ with the single most population effective unit (the cossack) and the tankiest 2 pop ranged cavalry to also have strong infantry.
Otto was weakened a little too much by the abus rof nerf and jans are slightly bad at killing cav. They need some adjustments but not a great deal. Otto is still very very strong in the hands of a good player.
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I doubt there will be changes to the Russian units because the intended design is supposed to be weaker units for cheaper and faster. “Swarming the enemy” is pointless late-game because everyone has equal or more military pop by then and can replenish their armies with all training time upgrades by then.
And Russia trades so badly with other civs, its arguable that it negates their cheaper unit cost advantage since you’re forced to replenish so dang fast.
I think Russia would be decently better if it had a population space of 210 or 215 instead of 200, enabling Russia to make up some of its terrible pop-inefficiency and put out 1-2 more cannons on the field.
I mean, look at the French or the Japanese:
- With France’s military space of 120, you could fit musketeers with 350 HP each and squeeze out 42k HP out of 120 population slots (at the cost of 12k resources).
- Japan is even more ridiculous with 125 slots, with Ashigaru musketeers having like 420HP(?) each, enabling Japan to squeeze out 52.5k HP (at the cost of 15k resources).
- Russia falls behind with 300HP musks and 101 slots, able to pump out 30.3k HP at the cost of (8080 resources).
If someone wants to argue that Russia wins via cost-efficiency, then I argue that Russian units don’t kill other civ’s units at the same rate of another civ to make Russia’s cost-efficiency effective. The DPS of 101 Rusketeers don’t have the DPS of 120 French musketeers, 125 Ashigaru musketeers, etc. Since they also have less HP, they die faster and force Russia to replenish much faster than it saves. Plus, you have to spend a little more APM to constantly replenish weak units, putting you at another type of disadvantage anyways.
Of course, so many mechanics come in such as using counter units, artillery, etc. But in the end, as many top treaty players have concluded as well in their discord chats, Russia is low tier and the weak units are one giant cause of it. (Still fun though, to run around)——FROM PerseusLegends4
**It is because the heavy musketeers of other countries are 300HP or even close to 500HP, but the Russian musketeers have only 285HP at the highest level, which makes their infantry weak in the later stage. It is very unreasonable. Most countries have low HP but Long-range musketeers have 250-300 HP even if their HP is low, so Russian infantry very much needs a musketeer with high blood volume, so as to achieve a consumable, a melee class, a long musket Soldiers, a reasonable mix of heavy musketeers this is my opinion.
I find it striking how in the vast majority of cases the new Italian civilization is a B, implying that Italy needs a Buff.
I think they’re fairly balanced, not super weak but could probably do with a few buffs same with malta which feels worse than italy. Now the novelty has worn off they are really just another couple of mediocre euro civs. Port and inca are in dire need of some buffs though.
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Didn’t Otto get a new unit in DE?
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If so, then it didn’t make any difference in civ strength, right? This is tierlist.
Ottos are clearly much weaker now, after other civs got better all these years. As we all know.
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otto is strong in the right hands and on the right maps, but the meta jan-abus age 2 is pretty mediocre now. Otto still underperforms at dealing with ranged cavalry, in fact its worse now. However, infinite spahi shipments and cavalry archers now having 100% accuracy were nice buffs to open up options. The new revolts have some good flavour as well. Otto is currently in a weird spot
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I guess it’s totally the Otto (and Inca, Port) player’s fault that 95% of maps are not “the right map”.
Talk about an understatement.
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well yeah of course not, but not every civ will be good on every map-- otto just kinda has less “strong” maps than say, india or brits that are pretty good on every map. Otto needs something changed; probably tweaks to abus is the right place to start. They probably need some long term buffs to jans, they are lowkey kinda terrible at killing melee cavalry, and have such low base ranged dmg they don’t even trade that well with goons either, while most other musket units do. I dont think otto is unplayable they have still been pretty popular in tournaments.
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odd that China is SS - it is a good civ but i actually found it hard to find many tournament videos if it. it is popular at 1000-1500 elo though
It’s FF was one of the strongest in the game before, then they got buffed and now with the tea card they can get a blockhouse to help defend that functions as a barracks/castle too.
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