this is just a base rate test so it will be applicable to all euro vils
I’ve been taking a look at how to fix some of the more lackluster age up options, and I think a small change to Akan could help with this issue.
Right now the Akan alliance gives you the techs Gold Economy (+10% mining and a prospector wagon) and Palm Oil Exports (exchanges all food for wood and coin).
Palm Oil Exports could be swapped out with Cocoa Beans (+30% on berries and+10% food gathering on fields). Hausa units cost a tremendous amount of food, so Palm Oil Exports is basically always bad, and replacing it with Cocoa Beans would provide a much needed boost to food gathering on fields.
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cocao at the timeline period I believe was exclusively grown in the americas - palm oil exports could just be changed to be a farm tech. The tech is theoretically useful if you had some unit at all that wasn’t food cost but that is essentially non existent, i agree on that
I’m not suggesting a new tech, just swapping out which existing ones are available through the alliance. Akan Cocoa Beans is already a tech at the Akan minor civ so I’d assume they actually cultivated them.
i guess if you push the timeline to the 1880s then yeah it barely falls in
Palm oil exports is a treaty tech for hausa, its basically hausa’s fur trade cause while hausa unit cost a lot of food, they cost basically nothing coin and wood wise so you always use to it to build a massive bank and then just spend the rest of the game having like 80-100 of your vils on food and get trickles wood from fields or market exchange
what they need more I think is something like fulling mills, atleast in a lategame context, suya skwers is ony a 35% increase and not the massive 400% of fulling mills and then they can have a cow eco.
we could just boost suya skewers and that would solve like 90% of their food eco problems
That sounds like a terrible strategy. You get +55% coin gathering on fields compared to +25% food gathering (if you even send the crappy cards that improve it). Plus it is much easier to convert cows into coin and wood and you can ship a few mines from your allies.
Why pay for a tech that is a 1:1 trade only to make your economy 30% worse for the rest of the game? At least fur trade gives 1:1.2 so you get a 20% gain.
If you are doing exchanges then the rate increases doesnt really as much as the raw rates though, net of upgrades if the rates are still better its still profitable for you to do the exchange, and then have a high ratio of your vils on food.
just to roughly do the math
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the rough rates of mills and estates is 0.47f and 0.35 c ( actual rates net of all the idle movement)
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so 0.47*(1+0.35 (with grannary) = 0.645f
& 0.35*(1+0.65) = 0.577 c
so with like 100 vils you get about 7 per second more res just gathering food
so you would still get more res from a 1:1 exchange then you would have if you were gathering them individually, esepcially since the wood rate is even lower then the coin rate late game.
In addition, a funny quirk of the hausa wood trickle from fields is that it scales by gather rate, so I think last I tried, you get more wood if you are gathering food then gold.
also i just noticed this but i seem to have been wrong about the field techs - I remembered them as providing the same +95% as euro
but the final one only provides +30% instead of +50% like other civs
edit: also after testing african villager rates with a grannary are the same as euro base rate so we can just increase large scale farming tech to 50% so that they are even
I didn’t realize the base coin gather rate was that much worse than food, but even so, your food gathering rate is hardly better. Granaries do affect both food and coin gathering from Fields which you’re not taking into account. I think they also work off of the current gathering rate, not the base rate.
So it should be like this with full upgrades and cards sent:
Food: 0.47 x (1+ 0.25 + 0.75)x 1.1 = 1.034
Coin: 0.35 x (1+ 0.55 + 0.9) x 1.1 = 0.94325
Wood: 0.5 x (1 + 0.5 + 0.7) = 1.1
Assuming those base values are correct, that’s only 0.09075 resources per second worse. Even if the wood trickle is also proportional, the difference is so small that it would hardly matter. Your units cost way more food than coin, and you’ll be getting periodic coin and wood income from selling cows, so I don’t see the advantage of spending influence to waste all your food.
I did take it into account.
the granary aura does not stack, it acts as just another 10% increase on gather rates
it has a nostack flag which stuff that does stack do not have
thats why the increase for food is 0.35 net (0.25 from cards and 0.1 from granary)
same with coin (0.55 from cards and 0.1 from granary)
so the rates are much lower then you think
the net rate for food is 0.987
coin is 0.892
which is 0.09/s difference
its not much but if you have your entire eco on food (104 vils potentially + cowing or that tech that allows cows to gather on fields which is like another 5 vills at max rate iirc)
So lets say 110 vils ish over say 20 mins (the time usually from which in imp in a 40 min treaty game you are maxed and are trying to gather a bank)
its a 12k res difference
(0.09x110x60x20= 12,474)
and in treaty where you are just trying to have the maximum bank possible its still a good move
think about it this way, if your units are food heavy, then you need to have a high enough overall food rate to meet your unit spam demand so you need as much vils on food as possible and spend as little time collecting the other res as possible.
even with trading cows, its a dose of 500 gold every 1-2 mins, not enough to maintain spam, so you will need a bank of gold in order to actually make units if you want to minimise having to gather gold.
and to build that bank of gold would you rather a) gather it which eats into how many vils there can be on food, which decreases your food rate.
b) just have everyone gather food and then you can trade it
with b) you are still able to build up your bank of gold but you are still spending most of your time gathering food, which is the optimal solution.
I had an extra 10% card buff that I shouldn’t have, so it’s about a 0.09 difference even if Granaries just modify base rates.
In that case I guess it works. I just can’t fathom how the treaty crowd enjoys spending 20 minutes doing nothing other than waiting for Villagers to gather resources. I’d much rather just have a tech that gives a 10% farming boost that is generally useful in all game modes.
Hausa is a civ with slightly better food gather rate than coin, so it is not super super beneficial to convert food to coin. However it is a wood heavy civ because you need fulani archers. The field wood is not enough, even got nerfed. For ethiopians who has much better food gather rate than coin and has a coin heavy army (neftenya) and wood heavy army (gascenya), such a card can be more useful.
But it’s not a card. It’s an age up tech borrowed from the Akan minor civ. The only way Ethiopia could get it is on west African maps.
thinking on like what could be easy changes to hausa, i think the berber alliance techs could use tweaks
the two techs we do have are not useful, one is a decent defense for vils but expensive
the other is just a meme
i we say have guaranteed access to say the berber sultan tech, it could be a lot more intersting and also allows hausa guaranteed access to some mercs, in this case the barbary corsiar, which might be a good stop gap for hausa melee infantry and the zenata rider which is just well known to be good
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I agree, Ghofars is trash. Berber Fantasia would be a much better tech. Especially if it also enabled Zenatas. And Barbary Corsairs could be a decent way to cover their lack of heavy infantry.
I think ethiopian has a similar card
I actually want to revisit this convo
just recently realised that the innitial cow that you kill for food doesnt decay, acting like a crate
so thinking about this, after getting enough food to build the first vil, you are kind of still on net 300 food no matter how many vils you have on the cow.
so testing this out, after the first vil is queued, you only need 2 vils on the cow to maintain the initial 3 vil queue so you can kinda have 3 vils to do what you want with
its still optimal to build with 1 vil, but I think its important to start building as soon as you have 1 vil in queue and you gain slightly more res if you have 2 of the 3 free vils gathering hunts as soon as possible (its like 16-18 more food by the 1st min from a few tries)
its like the most mundane of micro and tbh im not even sure how worth it 18 more food is
Hausa fields are so annoying to transition to that I’d rather resign if I didn’t have the advanced agriculture card in deck. At least with that card fields build faster and are free so you can set 1 vill to build all your farms for free in advance before you need to transition over, which also helps with the card that upgrades fields and gives you food for each field already built. As others have said though hausas food gather rate on fields is abysmal and livestock upgrade cards are weak.
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It is not that bad. You shift click 8 fields, then put a granary in middle, the vills will auto build fields after granary. you will have 4 such groups for all your vills.
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i think its more efficient to do it the other way
place a granary foundaation, then shift click fields around it and then normal click on the middle