Honest discussion here, lets please keep this civil and focused.
I’ve recently picked up Hausa and I must say, its really an interesting civ. I am very glad its been toned down from release, but I have a few thoughts I wanted to discuss.
First off I feel the roster is missing a lot. Maigadi are awesome i love the way they are designed and used in game. But the fact remains that the civ lacks whole unit archetypes.
I strongly feel the civ needs a pike unit or halb unit age 2, or something similar. The only siege you have in the mainline roster is Raiders, which are barely passable siege anymore. Also Maigadi are inaccessible in useful amounts to throw away just sieging a tower or something. It doesn’t need to be super fast, it doesn’t need to be amazing, just some medium value age 2 melee infantry. This could also help moderate the desperate need for siege units that the civ lacks.
as above: An Arsonist type unit. Even if its palace only, pretty mediocre vs infantry, just something that can siege that isn’t taken out instantly by ranged cavalry. This is more tentative, but without resorting to artillery (difficult in midgame when influence is tight) the only other siege you have is maigadi (also influence costed) or some mercs (influence costed). Raiders are difficult to justify, not great siege for cost, and lifidi outclass them once accessible, but they have really poor siege.
And now some other thoughts:
The apm requirements age 1 are really high.
Granaries are great but the build time is pretty rough. Does anyone know if its optimal to build them with multiple vills?
Explorer not shadowteching at all age 2 puts you at a Very distinct disadvantage at picking up some of those better treasures early age 2 when everyone is still getting things established. As a former aztec main from tad, early age 2 was absolutely golden for 110 wood treasures, solid food treasures, things like that. Even just a small shadowtech age 2 and 3 (10% even) would be a big help.
(thoughts got cut short by lunch break ending, I’ll add more later, including what i think is too strong)
I switched from Ethiopia to Hausa recently and they are overall just so much better. Cows with every shipment and a source of influence that doesn’t come at the expense of 30-50% of your gold income makes them much more playable. And the gaps in their unit roster are way more manageable. Ethiopia lacks viable cavalry and light infantry until age 3 which is hard to work around (yes there are Shotels, but they suck at doing cavalry things like raiding villagers and taking out cannons). I made a post more specific to Ethiopia that also covered general issues with the African civs that would also be applicable to Hausa.
Like you said, Hausa lacks standard heavy infantry, but I think a siege cavalry like the Raider is versatile enough to make up for it. With Raiders and Javelin Riders you’re pretty much covered for what a Pikeman would provide. The only issue is when facing a civ like Sweden that can shut down Raiders pretty effectively.
If you do want a pike/halb equivalent, the best prospect would be a Leopard Prowler outlaw unit at the Watchtower. It could replace the redundant Desert Archers and act something like a JPK. Similarly, Ethiopia could have the redundant Desert Warriors replaced by a Shifta cavalry outlaw that could provide effective raiding.
It’s probably not optimal but I do it anyways. And yeah, the African start is pretty intense, gotta herd, build a Granary, sell a cow to get a house and village dogs. And do that while dealing with bad pathing around the Granaries and your villagers shooting all the hunts away from them.
I think it would be preferable to just give Granaries a small cost but have them build faster and have a greater area of effect. Just stagger the starting fatness of the cows so one is fat enough to afford a Granary, House, and village dogs or just give a wagon to build the first one. Faster building Granaries and bigger fields would also ease the transition to farms which is currently extremely painful.
I didn’t realize this was the case. Raiders do have a bonus against guardians so that can offset it a little.
Now after playing both African civs I’ve got some thoughts on some of the issues with their age ups. Overall Hausa seems like there are only a few good ones, while Ethiopia has too many that are practically essential.
i won’t argue too much here, but the issue of course being that you need both combined to fill the one role, and both are quite expensive while pikes are generally cheap.
I can get behind this, making it a desert outlaw (2 pop i should hope, not 3 pop like the warriors are) plays nicely into hausas design, lets it fall off as maigadi become more accessible, but not cost influence. It also stops it conflicting with the existing War Camp upgrade system, which is a small background benefit for design as well. I 100% agree desert archers are terribly redundant for Hausa. Desert Warriors are great for them.
once they moved Jesuit Influence to age 2 I found the civ ultimately unplayable outside niche rush builds. Totally agree, I find Hausa much more interesting now.
In most cases they’ve got their needs covered. Yes Raiders are expensive, but most civs don’t have age 2 light cav so they can get away from their counters relatively easily and are overall more versatile than pikes. Caroleans and light cav are the only things that are going to give them trouble. There’s a card to make Fulani have longer ranged siege so that can help cover the vulnerabilities of Raiders. And you can use either Javlin Riders or Ankobias to cover the meatshield role.
I don’t see that as an issue. The War Camp upgrades could simply be an upgrade for ranged units and an upgrade for melee units (instead of melee cav). In my opinion, these grouped upgrades should also apply to mercenaries and natives instead of those units just shadow teching. Maybe their cost could be slightly reduced or split between another resource to balance out the nerf.
The Jesuit Influence absolutely needs to be moved back to age 1. The rush strategies that were abusing it have been nerfed to the ground since. Hausa is just so much more streamlined. You don’t have the glaring gaps in your age 2 roster like having no counter to heavy infantry other than a Cannoneer shipment. You don’t have to sacrifice a huge portion of your coin income to get influence, or constantly invest in cows. And just little things like Hausa Kingdom Builders being able to construct a 400 resource University vs Ethiopian Kingdom Builders being able to construct a 150 resource Monastery.
Ethiopia has some great units and once you get fully geared up and have enough influence to afford things like cannons they’re on the overpowered side. But generally the game is over before they ever get to that point.
uma das coisa mais chatas de jogar com hausa e etiopia são seus exploradores não tem um uma habilidade de matar um guardião do tesouro com um tiro a maioria dos tesouros com alguns guardiões acima de 200 hp fica difícil de matar principalmente quando e um guardião que e possível atirar, um dos problemas que existem com os tesouros quando existe um guardião com muito dano em modo de tiro mais em modo corpo a corpo muito baixo como o da zarabatana se caso eles estiverem muito próximo um do outro e o explorador usar o modo caos os guardiões forçarão modo de corpo a corpo e não darão dano algum ao outro e você morrera para eles depois que o efeito acabar isso acontecem em 80% dos tesouros com unidades que atiram
i 100% agree, I really dont enjoy treasure hunting as Hausa. Especially treasures guarded by 1 single high hp guardian. Takes FOREVER while a euro or twc would have it in about 3 seconds
they do have access to musk with decent siege but you need a card to unlock them, in terms of siege you can also leverage the desert raider outlaw in the outpost. Its not great per pop but its decent for a 5 unit pop which is kinda what you want.
On the arsonist viable, maybe an outlaw arsonist, we have been lacking that, but i think the musket play is kinda what they want you to do
I just use 1, but the key I think is that you need a dead hunt ready before you start building them. I usually collect the starting cow, then once I have 100 just use 2 vils to fire at a hunt and make 1 of them build the Granary next to it. This way once the Granary is completed they go collect the hunt instead of firing at animals.
the APM I think gets lower once you realise that its all about timing.
You need the livestock market working early so that by the time your granary finishes, you can exchange your cow for atleast 150 to get the hunting dogs tech and also a house.
So it doesnt really matter how fast the grannary finishes i think, it matters more that you can align your next step when it finishes.
Yeah but also note that they gain stats around nearby allies and also enemies with the kingslayer card. I think I have seen some send that card early though I dont remember if it counts treasure guardians. I would love hausa to start with a griot cause they would be great help in treasure hunting, healing and potential eco, with a griot around the hero would also gain an early HP and attack boost as well.
There is a trick I have seen other people do with single guardian treasures, which is that you can lure guardians from different treasures together and then trigger the chaos ability. They will still fight each other and you can potentially get 2 treasures for the price of 1.
African treasuring feels very high risk high rewards but as to me it feels very china-esque since you can do a bunch of fancy tricks that can potentially a lot more stuff then a euro hero
Akan are solid units but less mobile than the rest of your military and do cost a card to train with food/coin. I like akan and i use them but they are slow and not terribly great at killing cav either. They’re genuinely better vs massed infantry than anything else.
Desert raiders got nerfed really hard. I see a little value in them but they dont feel worth the pop. Desert Warriors are good units, but 3 pop is a bit of an issue. Their siege also isn’t amazing either.
my biggest timing issue largely surrounds my current build order where i ship 3 vills and the uni /tp builder wagon age 1, but timing the wagon to arrive right after hitting age 2. I use the Morroco crates to get a shipment immediately behind it anyways and a tp to go alongside it so there’s no loss in tempo. Its just an extra thing to remember at a busy time in the game.
There are also berber builds but im not convinced by them.
I always forget this weird random bonus. Probably should use it more.
I really dont get a lot of the Hausa ageups. the techs and units both feel poor so many of the ageups just deliver units, none of which are exactly amazing either.
And for real: Can the tech which only and exclusively describes its effect as being the useless “fulani gather wood” also mention the actually impactful but overpriced range addition?
ah but you can add griots to your mass to increase their speed. Its not as fast as it would be without them but you still get an army with atleast 4.2 speed
oh yeah if you are doing the wagon in transition build that does take more attention, I still mess up the timing for that sometimes.
it does mention it though
its just that its not a range addition but a separate attack so people do miss it
I think there is also a weird quirk with this long range attack, fulani doesnt actually have the LoS for them since their LoS range is still at best the 20 after fulani tactics. So they dont do attack move with this attack very well.
ja tentei isso mais e uma chance muito baixar de 2 tesouros estarem tão proximos para acontecer isso
eu pesso para os DEVS adicione um ‘‘crack shot’’ para os africanos ou um tipo de multiplicador maior para os exploradores contra guradioes ou ate algo de dano em area
I thought about this more in the same vein as how the nizam fusilier has 20 range in stand ground but not increased LOS as a way to balance it. but could be a bug as well.
one replaces the fulani bow with a rifle, which is what they were probably planning to turn them into lategame skirms. The action isnt developed so it turns them into units with no attack.
the second is tuareg allies, which enables barbary skirms in hausa palaces and outpost, kinda like how the morrocan tech works, except this unit is still seperate from the current outlaw skirm that we have, its still 1 pop and it isnt classed as an outlaw.
IMO, Hausa needs a little buff in their late-game economy (treaty). Their field gather rate is really low, they need about 5% of increment in the field recollection. Also, the wood trickle nerf should be reverted a little bit from 5%at least to 7%. Maybe a reduction in the native training time could be cool.
I agree, fields are also a tremendous APM vacuum during transition, it is AWFUL and you cant change them to coin until they’re built either. I am learning to use the infinite salt mine and akan gold mine with the uni aura card and its… acceptable for medium length games.
My biggest issue with the late game thus far is that they really lack any solid, well rounded eco shipments that comfortably slot into a deck. Nothing like refrigeration or royal mint. there’s the watered down eco theory (15% natural res, 5%to unnatural resources), a decent shipment on berber builds but not great for long games. A lot of hausa cards feel like “5% to fields if its a tuesday and the map has the letter y in the name”
I know I’m slightly exaggerating but besides the eco uni aura and that one decently solid coin upgrade, its just odd. I figured out stacking the extra market coin tech with the uni aura and the eco theory style card makes the salt mine really efficient as long as you can keep it managed well. The food rate is slow and i dont want to eat livestock when i really would prefer to stack influence and spam maigadi.
One thing I think I’m guilty of sleeping on is University set to XP once you have a solid livestock mass and the techs in for influence. you can outclass even azzy xp generation and i think the xp is worth more if you pick your shipments right.
Ok another thought of mine: City Walls and Fortified Cities - - why the what are these influence costed techs. The shipments that enable them for free almost feel like requirements. That age 4 builder wagon shipment might be the highest value free shipment in the game if you ignore Blood Brothers.
Another note: Griots. I know we need to talk about these guys. Am I crazy or do they actually deal some decent damage output? Also mission fervor age 2 is ridiculous strat I’ve stumbled on during my Morroco build testing. These doot doot guys can just tank forever and the speed buff is no joke either. Siege dmg at 16 range and very high rof. I Cannot find a dmg cap on the splash dmg, does anyone know if they have a cap? If you get 9 or 10 of them they can snowball almost any fight in your favour when upgraded. 2 pop was probably tge correct nerf but i think its a bit much when the civ also relies so heavily on outlaws and mercs.
