Let's talk CHINA

Is China S++++ tier now? They have mega powerful ff, and now semi ff, good rush, strong eco, great all around with no real weaknesses. They used to be slow-ish but were unnecessarily buffed imho. I cannot beat China to save the life of me nowadays, either I utterly stink or they desperately need to be toned way down. The frustration of facing the death ball is too much.
Would love to hear suggestions.
I think nerfing meteor hammers would be a good start… what else?
Thanks.
P.s. I’d rather play vs pre nerf Inca/Swedes than this bologne.

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China just needs to change the goat at the beginning of the game from 120 food to 60 and China will be back to normal :smile:

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Sometimes a tweak (like the goat) is enough to push something over the edge of waaaay too OP, that and reducing meteor hammer multiplier vs artillery.

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I couldn’t disagree more. Of the three Asian civs, they have the slowest XP gain, which honestly makes sense because the second they get Confucius’s Gift, they can just blast ahead in research, which of course, is historically accurate to the Ming and Qing.

Then they lack an arsenal, which is my number 1 complaint for China, the most technologically advanced of the Asian factions and Japan gets a random Dutch arsenal, ok…

And this is something I have to discuss further but I am positive they nerfed the consulate armies by an unknown amount. Sometimes I will wait and just defend till my entire army is wiped out, and go to the German consulate and spend all my export and get like 6 heavy cannons and 100 skirmishers and previously…prior the Knights of the Mediterranean, that was a “GG” moment. The cannons USED to have over 1,000HP and over 400 attack, because of China’s Siege Hipoints, Siege Damage, Siege Combat, but now they are WEAKER than normal cannons. I summoned one early, before sending all the siege cards, and it’s base attack was 270, instead of 330 like it used to be.

The thing that infuriates me there is that the devs didn’t say that did that. Which to me, screams bug.

Also, and this one is like super dependent (still historically accurate) at the very end of the game, when everyone is maxed out, the Europeans are too strong, mainly that Imperial age up that gives mercenaries unreasonable stats (the Africans actually have this too, by default, for free), but the native Americans (who can’t even train mercenaries half the time) and the Asians get no bonuses at all. A Chinese Manchu is great and all with its 400HP and 27 attack but you know what’s better, the random European one with 600HP and 40 attack.

I think late game, that really, really holds down the Asians.

And finally, reducing the Meteor Hammers multiplier would probably make me quit the game. Their HP is too low and their attack is too low too. There is no way, no way at all, a meteor hammer, the Chinese ball and chain, does LESS damage than a hussar’s saber. A fully, FULLY leveled up Meteor Hammer has about 530HP and 64 attack. A fully leveled up hussar averages 700HP and like 68 attack. The Meteor Hammer should at least have 70 damage. No way a saber hits harder than a weapon like the ball and chain. Honestly, if I had my way, I’d see the damage increased and the HP stay the same and I’d have the Iron Flail patched out of the game.

The Iron Flail is the worst Chinese unit by a country mile. I only use them against Russia (Streltsy just die to them) and the Japanese (Yumi can’t even defend against Iron Flails).

I’m a China main, if that wasn’t obvious lol.

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Huh it is bugged its not shadow teching to imp

the 270 is probably a bug, though arguably its also a weird double bug since consulate heavy cannons were getting an extra +25% stats that no other heavy cannons in the game receives

no, it has 30 range resist(40 with double sided armour) and 5 range, are you asking for china to get more nerfs?

Its a video game, which needs balance between the civilizations. The Meteor Hammer is relative to the hussar cheaper. AoE has never been a historical simulation in which everything has to make perfect sense.

Yeah all the Asian civs are op to one extent or the other under the radar. They have a huge difference in outcomes between good players and noobs. Complicated so new players can’t play them we’ll and op with skilled players.

China is the more blatant op. They hit you with so much mass and it is relentless. Very hard to keep up. It is quite literally an endless meat wave.

Japan just has a wide range of edges along a wide assortment of categories. The most irksome being the teleport double heroes and the 100% no idle economy. There’s even more but why whistle into the wind.

India is more muted than the other two but between the murderous rush potential and super strong third age units are more than a match.

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I must again though say I’m
very impressed with the last release. Malta and Italy are undoubtedly the most balanced release I have seen in this game going back to it’s original realease. Their are some problems but generally the devs best work to date.

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Amen, glad someone said it lol
I agree with everything you wrote.

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Oh boi I was saving this for a china thread

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Man I am actually salivating at the idea of china getting an arsenal… more hp for steppe, flail, meteor, and changdao, extra range for keshik… imagine!

Oh in regards to the thread, I have them right below brits for #1, but I would put brit in a tier of its own.

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Well, it must be admitted that China is now quite powerful. But I think it is a constant problem that all civilizations specialized in spamming units have (China, Russia, Aztecs and Ethiopians)

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I always hope that the Chinese can unlock and train Manchurian soldiers and give Manchurian soldiers a booster card. The Qing Dynasty could not train Manchurian units, but it was funny to be a mercenary. There are also Confucian academies, training flying crow is also an illogical idea, I hope Correcting this mistake makes the Confucian Academy a spectacle that strengthens the economy, such as having an experience stream, which can reduce the cost of technology or something, instead of automatically training artillery units, which should be added to the Summer Palace.

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I always advocated for allowing the manchurian merc army card to be infinite, it will combo really well with koxinga card and a FI gold merc build for china

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So true, all asian civs are kinda op in my 1400 elo braket

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I would say they need a bit buff in treaty actually. They are behind on eco after vills nerf

Right China and even other asian civs never got the merc rework that Euros got for some reason (access to imperial mercs, turning most merc shipments into infinite in Age IV)

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I’m about 1350. Yes they get worse the higher you climb

The Goat 50→120=70/(8/2)=17.5 Food Box.Is it a question?

wat are you talking about?