List of Ottoman Changes

Early game:

-Permanently reduce the settler spawn rate by 1 second at start. The very slight eco boost the Ottomans need.
-Abus attack reduced to 36, RoF increased from 3.5s to 3.0s. This is purely for synergy and actually makes them worse against Ruskets, Sepoy, Ashigaru, and heavy artillery.

Late-Game:

-Guard Abus upgrade now also increases damage to light cav to 1.75, for a new total damage of .87 from .75.

-Change the Acemi Oglan School (IV) card affecting Janissaries as follows:

-Reduce food and coin Cost by 10% (down from 20%)
-Reduce Training time by 10%
-Increase attack by 10% (this is a just a 2 ranged attack increase)
-Increase HP by 10% (this is just a 21 HP increase)
-Increase speed by 5% (this is a .2 speed increase)

Nerf:

-Increase spawn rate of Great Bombards from factory by 5%.
-Reduce Spahi base HP from 750 to 725, however -
-Increase Spahi HP and Attack shadow upgrade in Imperial Age by another 10% of what it currently is to make them more viable late-game.

Misc:

-Fix the typo in the name of the Royal Guard Grenadier unit from “Baratcu” to “Barutcu”.

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If this is done, the Grand Bazaar upgrade should be only a 7 second training time reduction so the end result with all the upgrades is the same. The price of Grand Bazaar could also be reduced to 250 wood to make up for the reduced benefit. As soon as Ottomans get multiple Town Centers they can boom quite well so taking a second off the maximum rate might be too strong.

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Agreed and reasonable. The last upgrade should only reduce it by 7 seconds instead of 8 seconds to keep the spawn rate the same at that point in the game.

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It would be the same cadence as the European skirmisher. What I would suggest is that the projectile tolerance is increased from 20% to + 5% with each upgrade until reaching 35-45% in imperial (At least) Because it could go up to 45 due to cost and population.

I’m assuming these changes would be to the Acemi Olglan School card. You could probably simplify it a bit to just this:

Reduce food and coin Cost by 10% (down from 20%)
Reduce Training time by 10%
Increase HP by 15%

What you really want is for them to be meat shields for cannons so more health would be most beneficial. Those attack and speed boosts are so small you might as well just exclude them for simplicity.

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The cadence with Skirmishers doesn’t matter. What matters is that compared to Skirms, Abus have, per pop:

-Less range
-Significantly less HP (even less than a Strelet)
-A higher melee box
-Significantly worse villager damage
-More vulnerable to heavy artillery due to their high cost and uniquely low HP

Their ranged resistance to anything more than 25% would be considered overpowered and wouldn’t be addressing their lackluster performance against light cavalry and would make them even better against other skirms and muskets, which is not what this is asking to do.

It’s asking to synergize them with Janissaries, and make them slightly better against light cavalry, while keeping all of their vulnerabilities intact.

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All of that HP but low attack doesn’t help when you have units in your base that are ignoring the janissaries and loving the fact that they are not able to pick them off nearly as fast as regular muskets.

The novelty of the extra HP on Janissaries compared to regular muskets goes away once you realize attack gets more important late-game. The slightly added speed and attack is much-needed and from recent patches with complex cards doing all sorts of unique things we haven’t seen before, doesn’t seem difficult to pull off at all.

Abus guns are serious vulnerability, sometimes I skip them until I need to fight counter-cav.

Grenadiers are just as capable anti-infantry duties and they can smash bases.

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Maybe a second infantry Unit (archer/Shirmisher) would be not bad.

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I hope a cheap units (like strelets/insurgents) bows and pikes for ottos.

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These guys could fill that role:

But they might be a better fit as outlaws

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Yeah, I doubt Pikes and xbows for ottoman would break the balance.

It could be a shipment from the metropolis, just like the Cherokee for the British. They could also have gunpowder cavalry.

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They really wanted to push that this was a gunpowder civilization from the get-go, and starting from the 1500s and onwards they really didn’t rely much on close-range pikes and arrows since they literally had long-range, deadlier, and sometimes more accurate muskets at their disposal.

To add pikes and xbows to jans and abus would make things a bit awkward in my opinion and not what is needed to balance the civ.

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The bashi bazouks already exist in the game.

They exist through the irregulars card that give cav archers 1.5 multiplier against villagers.

If you google Turkish irregulars, the bashi bazouks is the first thing that comes up.

I think what we need is some redesign of the ottomans so that they get more from their mandatory crate cards in Age 2.

Just like the Mexicans have a card that gives them 500 food and allows them to get food from destroyed buildings.

I suggest the Ottoman crate cards be redesigned and we have more permanent effects instead. Like the 700 wood card can be… 500 wood plus increased settler spawn rate. (Late game mosque rates adjusted accordingly).

700 coin can be 500 coin and Abus Gun RoF improved to 3 from 3.5.

700 food can be 500 food and Janissary hp increased by 5% (Janissaries always carry their soup pots to battle haha)…

What do you guys think?

What about janisaary archers as skirmisher and dragons ? Ottomans needs cheap skirmisher and good dragons.

Cav archers are fine and pretty good actually.

The problem is enemy dragoons, since abus guns are easily taken out and expensive it’s possible to just overwhelm ottoman with dragoons.

I’d suggest giving jannisaries a bonus vs light ranged cav (dragoons) at range.
That would make Jannisaries more than expensive tough musketeers with worse damage esp vs cav.

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That’s for cavalry though. Tha Bashi bazouk are infantry. The Ottomans had irregular cavalry too:

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-Remove Grenadiers from Ottomans and give RG to Cavalry Archers.

-Acemi Oglan School card should provid 10% HP + 10% damage for Janissaries/Nizams

-Abus Guns gain +1/+1 extra range at Guard/Imperial (or Veteran/Guard) Upgrade so in total it will be 22 range. Revert the ROF to 3.

-Give Ottomans a fast moving trash-like Spearman unit so they can counter cavs better and Barracks won’t be a unique building for Jans only.

-??? IV age card that drops Abus to 1 pop ???

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