Magyar buff ideas

  1. Magyar Huszar costs 100F in Dark Age (basic cost in tech tree) (change: +20F, -10G).

  2. Corvinian Army (Mercenaries in HD) dropped.

  3. Recurve Bow added in Castle Age (to make them Cavalry Archer rushing, just like Turks).

  4. Steppe Lancers added to Tech tree.

  5. Light Cavalry units discount extended to all light cavalry units available- Scout Cavalry, Light Cavalry, Hussar, Huszar, Elite Huszar, Steppe Lancer Elite Steppe Lancer.

Since at this point Huszar line and Scout line cost only food, developers may decide to give a 15% food discount or a 15% overall discount (dropping the Steppe Lancers gold cost from 45 to 38).

  1. Adding an Imperial Age UT (as expected).

In spite of all this, I feel that Magyars should get a slight economy bonus for Dark Age. They have strong military bonuses which kick in Feudal Age for all units (except Skirmishers).

Extra attack for Militia/M@A, Spearmen, Scout Cavalry, extra LoS for archers or discount for Scout Cavalry; they have their military options round and complete. They are the only civ which has fully upgradeable Arbalesters, Cavalry Archers, Paladins; all with a bonus.

Maybe they gather extra food from hunt (analogous to Tatars).

Why would you do any of this?

Magyars have the strongest HCA in late imp, that’s why it’s made difficult for them to switch into CA early.
They’re a great civ on any map which is hard to wall (because of their great scout rush) and also on any map where they can get to late imp.
I’d argue any civ which is stronger than Magyars on those settings should be nerfed, not the other way round.

The only change I might consider is something to help Magyars deal with walls in feudal age, eg scouts +3 vs buildings.

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Or their villagers could kill deer in one hit. It would be a tiny buff, but fits with their anti-wolf bonus.

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Yes! Love this idea.

Magyar are amazing so long as the enemy can’t wall in time. If the enemy can wall in time than imo mags are subpar until late castle or only imperial(when the advantage of the huszars and recurve bow kick in) compared to the top tier civs.

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Sometimes people use that extra hit for herding. I don’t think this is necessarily a buff. And makes like 0.05% difference on eco.

In my case that extra hit allows the deer to flee out of my mill…

Another option would be to make villagers teleport deer meat (like khmer farmers). This combined with their wolf bonus, would allow magiars to send sneaky villagers for extra food after dropping a castle, etc.

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I don’t think Magyars need that much love. The Civ isn’t awful by any means.

Futhermore, the Cav Archer sucking is the biggest of their problems. And those are so universally agreed to need some love, it has to be coming.

That said, I don’t mind this one(without the Steppe Lancer and the UU cost adjusted to be effectively the same). I do find it somewhat odd that they have discounted scout line and then a replacement for it in their UU. Of course the whole castle thing still means the discounted regular Hussars are much appreciated.
But it still seems a bit bizarre.

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That’s analogous to Saracen Archers in November 2019 and that’s OP. Maybe +1 per age starting in Dark Age.

except archers can attack from range and scouts can’t. against a wall for example only 3-4 scouts tops can attack a single wall tile. that isn’t true with archers.

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Buildings other than walls and outposts have significantly high pierce armor than melee armor. Castles for Example have 8/11, which means they negate the entire pierce attack of every archer or Cavalry unit except fully upgraded War Wagon, whereas
this is not the case with most melee units. Fully upgraded Halbs (least melee attack amongst Imperial Age units) can shred through their melee armor without bonus damage. Other buildings have even less melee armor. Houses for example have Age - 1 melee armor, while Age + 6 pierce armor. Attack against buildings is important here too, not just walls.

agreed, but bonus damage isn’t negated like that. i don’t think giving scout line bonus damage vs buildings is the answer for the record, just pointing out that comparing scouts and archers on a bonus damage basis is not really fair.

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Magyars have been consistently bottom 5 in win rate at 1650+ and their civ bonuses are pretty underwhelming. The free blacksmith bonus is pretty decent for the early knight rush, the scout savings are meh in Feudal Age but pretty irrelevant late game when you switch to their Huszars, and the villager / wolf bonus is completely useless, particularly after spawning was dropped. To me their civ bonuses are probably one of the worst in the game - like compare that to the Byzantine cheaper trash or the Teutons farm / wood bonus. Either of those are better than all the Magyars bonuses put together

What maps are you talking about where they are great? They are at 42.6% on Arabia. They are even worse on Arena but good on Hideout / Acropolis if you are talking about walled maps

I think this would be replacing one irrelevant bonus with another. And sometimes you want the extra hit to herd the deer

The main problem I have with this is that it makes the Magyars even more predictable with the main aggression being the scout rush and again is really only relevant for that strategy whereas they need help all the way through Castle Age

Again the statistics show they have been consistently bad for the last several patches. If a Cav Archer buff makes a 5% win rate difference for Magyars, then it’s going to get nerfed back because it massively overbuffs other civs like the Huns which are at 52.6% win rate

I still think +10hp for the villagers and a 10-15% faster attacking for cavalry should should be enough to fix their issues

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yeah definitely, i would prefer a buff to give them a more diverse opening, but one issue you need to deal with is hardliners who think civs need to keep their theme (even if this means they are weaker aka turks)

along with the issue of trying to find civ bonuses that dont “overlap” (so as to appease yet another group of hardliners)

so the + dmg to buildings appeases two stubborn groups at the same time…

yes its exactly the same… and thats why indian camels get a whopping +5 for FREE … :roll_eyes: :roll_eyes:

the higher PA of buildings is explicitly why the archer bonus is OP, because archer specifically do incredibly low damage, so giving them any bonus magnifies their dps exponentially

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honestly i think the wolf bonus just needs to be scrapped for something else. maybe a true economy bonus.

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yeah totally, a lot of us have been saying it for a long time, its a remnant of the past

there’s a few similar cases in the game. namely mongol CA and the mangudai… their CA are much better than standard CA, yet mongols will almost always go for UU, similarly the cumans, or lith to some degree (ie they have bonuses to a standard line, yet their UU can fulfil the same role)

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what about maybe hunted animals lasting longer? like tatar sheep bonus but with boars, deer, etc. kind of ties in with the wolf bonus a little bit.

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yeah i think it can work, maybe something like 20% (i would guess it cant be too high as hunting is so effective and includes boars)

thats already about 240 food with 4 deer and 2 boars

Okay that actually is a pretty fair argument. They do probably indeed need more love than just the cav archer. But what should that be? Dark Age eco bonus, at least a strong one seems a bit scary given they already are a strong scout rush civ as it is without one.

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But that would push their scout rush even more, wouldnt it?

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it gives them an early game boost to do whatever they want, faster castle? sure. faster scouts? sure. M@A? sure.
point is it gives them more options.

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