Between all these, swapping UTs sounds like the best way to make castle age more interesting.
It would be a mild buff. They certainly don’t need a strong buff.
1 Like
Its actually ok if they got that tech too. You can do a prolonged drush or very fast man-at-arm build or something like that. There’s still no proper mid-game bonus for them, so even though it will be much stronger for Goths compared to other civs, it will be ok to have it.
Honestly just give them Bombard Cannons I’m kind of surprised they don’t have it already.
1 Like
Well could also be 10 in feudal, 15 un Castle, and 20 in imp, but considering they already have a better unit in nagyar huszar i don’t think It would be OP. I would make 80 F magyar huszar over 60 food (25% discount) regular hussar
Exactly, and they never got compensation not even small. Infact they only have the silly Wolf bonus
I’m sure most will disagree. Also 10%/15%/20% is not an improvement than Berbers.
I asked Stable and Scout Cavalry available in Dark Age, and Light Cav available in Feudal Age for potential 2 new civs. Maybe Magyars can get one of them. However they need an eco bonus to utilize this early access bonus. For that I also proposed 20% longer lasting hunts for them. But Goths got that bonus. Now I have no unique idea for a food bonus other than a combination of Britons+Mongols = Villagers collect meat 15% faster or Tatars+Goths = Meat lasts 18% longer.
Edit: Just got an unique idea - Hunters drop off 15% more meat.
Seems to be equivalent to lasting +15% longer but actually better as it has no rotting issue and Villagers can go to gather other recourses earlier. Not sure if it is better than the Mongol bonus, but in my opinion it will be better than the Goth bonus. This is strong especially with cheaper Scouts and free Forging.
Here’s another idea: Start with +1 deer nearby the initial TC (and maybe even every new TC will also spawn a deer).
This may provide less food than dropping off +15% for the initial TC.
The wolf bonus can become to: Villagers kill Wolves in one strike and get 10 gold.
It’s strange that wolves can provide food, but at least they can provide fur.
First I don’t think Magyars are in such a bad spot.
They seem a bit “flat” these days along with some of the other CA civs, as CA seem to be really bad in the current meta.
Even in this thread almost nobody actually talks about CA, which is weird as Magyars have probably the best CA in the game with their recurve bows.
So the Magyars are often just played as a typical Cavalry civ where they don’t have the biggest bonusses for. Ofc the cheaper scouts and free attack upgrades help, but it’s not that hte civ is designed entirely around that like Franks. Magyars have a lot of other options.
And that’s what I would ask for. Juat make other units be more competitive. Like the CA. Then Magyars will fell way less bland cause they could acually make use of their diverse tech tree instead of just being played like a standard cav civ with only mediocre bonusses and no eco…
Same is also for Huns btw. The feel bland as CA are so bad and just usually play cavalry these days.
It’s sadge, But it doesn’t has anything to do with the civs, it’s unit balance.
Combination of 15% faster and 15% longer.
Oh yeah. I’d replace scout discount as I mentioned.
That’s a cool bonus.
I like this change, even if nothing else changes, this could at least happen, simply to make drushing/MAA align with the vil bonus
Mag are far from weak, with a number of good maps, but they could probably do with a minor tweak (especially around huszars and Corv UT). Imo they definitely should not get any food eco bonus until castle age at the earliest, as it simply makes them even better where they are already good, making them even more of a pick on certain maps, and not necessarily helping outside of scrushing. As opposed to getting a military bonus for non scout units, or a wood/gold eco bonus.
Simultaneously I don’t think scouts or CA need any form of buff in imperial, as they’re already incredibly good. So at most something like adding BBC or something else. But still think tweaking huszars(UT) and/or some kind of minor castle age bonus is the way to go (even if it’s CA produce 20% faster)
Okay. I really can’t get this “Magyars is really strong” statement. Is this another fallacy like “Xbow are too strong and Knights are too weak” when statistically it is the otherwise.
Magyars in terms of bonuses and tech tree objectively (strong word, I know) the worst water map civ, one of the bottom tier civ in closed maps, and fairly average on open maps, statistically leans towards more to negative W/R than positive.
Can anyone please explain this? Am I seeing stats wrong? Or people’s subjective opinion on this civ is strong that they don’t care about stats?
Note: Obviously I’m speaking about RM settings. DM and EW are Magyars strong zone.
they are strong mainly because of their military tech tree since they have FU Arbs, FU CA with a unique tech, FU paladin with free attack, FU Hussar with discount, goldless unique unit that counters siege to pair with CA, FU (or very close to) Champions…in terms of military they have all options but siege
they lack an eco bonus, which makes them unabe to properly benefit from this amazing military tech tree, and their bonuses tend to shoehorn them into the “very predictable” zone
2 Likes
I wouldn’t argue that “Magyars are really strong”, but I would argue they shouldn’t get a big change.
The reason is that they’re already fun to play.
They have a nice feeling scout rush, and you can build up towards good light cav / very strong CA / Arbs / Paladin. The castle age feels a bit generic, but even that’s a wash.
The civs that really needed buffs had you thinking “If only I was playing franks/mayans/britons/… then I could do everything I’m doing now but better”. And I don’t experience that with Magyars at all. So giving them complicated new features would be a waste (in a number of ways).
That last argument doesn’t apply to switching the UTs and tweaking their costs, so by all means the UTs can be switched and the costs tweaked until Magyars achieve an average win- and pick-rate. Maybe Magyars deserve the cost of their Imp UT getting cut in half. I wouldn’t know and honestly I don’t care.
3 Likes
Its because CA is a very difficult strategy for a civ with no eco bonus nor resource advantage in making them. Magyar get the melee attack upgrades for free which saves the resources and gives an advantage. Recurve bow and massed CA is something that plays out well after 40 mins.
Partially true. If you buff CA, Magyars will be very good but the stronger CA civs like Mongols, Huns and Tatars will become the meta and need re-balancing. CA are difficult to use in early game and a good unit in late castle age and imp but buffing them will just bring the voobly CA spam meta back again.
In general the eco vs military advantage trade-off is not favorable for certain civs and Magyars is one of them.
Once again people’s opinion of a civ being balanced because it’s very good in some niche settings like Empire wars or very aggressive maps like Atacama, while average or below average in most commonly played settings.
Yeah only in late Imperial.
At least bigger than everything else they have. They surely have options, even MAA opening is above average. But their most bonuses are for stable units.
With zero eco bonus, that’s actually hard imo. You need to give more military bonuses to them. My proposal was TB changed to CA units train 25% faster and additional effect of Corvinian army to reduce CA gold cost by 10.
3 Likes
Magyars aren’t really “bad”. They just feel blunt as they atm just played the typical scouts into Knights like Franks. But Franks do that just better (at least in 1v1s, in some agressive TGs the scout spam of magyars can be very effective).
And for me that’s so sadge, cause Magyars are the only civ that has all 3 power unit lines FU and even some bonusses to them.
But one part of it is also surely the Knight dominated meta that causes one of the from design most versatile civs to feel “blunt”.
The TB is interesting. But I would actually like something that also helps their archer line a bit. The bonus to corvinian army comes in way too late to make a difference in the midgame where decisions are made.
I actually think the best bonus/change for magyars would be a food related bonus. Something that increases the starting food without helping with the feudal timing. Something comparable to the Tatars sheep bonus. Maybe Berries lasting 50 % longer or something like that. This kind of food bonusses usually benefits archery range openings a bit more. But it would surely also help a bit with their scout rushes. It’s only a minore economic bonus, but it helps executing all the different openings. I also thought about something hunt-related but hunt is way too powerful and would require to nerf them somewhere else.
I still think the fact that Magyars is currently basically just seen as “yet another scouts into Knights civ” is a clear indication that the other power unit lines need some love. Especially the CA, which are atm almost never seen.
1 Like
They are kind of old Incas to me. Usually outshine by other civs. Maybe even less unique than Incas as Incas have a good stone bonus and could be played as American-Byzantines. While everything Magyars can do until late Imperial, Huns can do faster and better.
Yeah. But FU Arbalester is not an exciting thing when you don’t have any eco bonus. Replacing Arbalester with HC will actually be a buff for them.
I actually found their TB really weird since FE DLC as being a pure cavalry civ with a TB of foot archer didn’t make any sense. My guess is it was given to encourage players to pick Magyars in TG over Franks and Huns as both of your flank players will benefit instead of yourself become stronger. In that case, the idea failed horribly as Magyars was always one of the least favorite Paladin civ in TG.
I don’t care about historical accuracy that much. But isn’t it opposite of them being a nomadic-semi nomadic people?
1 Like
Yeag I said alreay, a hunting bonus would have made more sense like the new goths one.
But that would also probably be too powerful for Magyars.
Going by this and reading your other comments I think you’re trying to make them something they aren’t
They aren’t only a cavalry civ. They’re flexible civ. That’s why they have Arbs, and that’s why they have a stronger MAA rush and why they have better vision on foot archers. They were probably designed to revolve around “scouts” but that was probably before Devs realised how important food is, and simply doesn’t work until imp.
Giving CA the discount as well, simply makes them even better where they’re already good. Discounted scout, with FU buffed Ca that train significantly faster and now are cheaper where it really matters. In imperial that’s a 16% discount where it really matters.
You are projecting what you want of the civ instead of trying to understand what the civ needs.
CA faster Training is fine. As a TB it might be too much, but who knows, but the discount is too much. Huns CA are cheaper but don’t have faster training +1/1 dmg and armour and discounted FU scouts. Did you even try to think of this objectively?
Corv needs a review but I don’t think buffing their already incredibly good scout /CA comp is the way to go.
I think the longer berries might work as well, doesn’t make their scrush sooner and it’s a flexible eco advantage at least.
Huszars could probably do with a tweak. ATM they’re 80f/10g
Change that to 60f/30g with corv changing gold to food at a discount (back to flat 80f) makes them far more usable in castle age, without hurting their imperial viability. As usual UUs are meant to add a lot of flavour to a civ, but we know food cost is simply too much of a bottleneck in castle age, compared to gold.
And focusing on the cost change as opposed to stats because the civ lacks economically so get a similar treatment to Samurai with their cost change as opposed to stats.