Mahayana Unique Tech šŸš®šŸ’©

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

  1. Make Mahayana research cheaper .

  2. Trade Cart/Trade Cog/Fishing Boats should be affected by Mahayana. But they donā€™t.

  3. Mahayana should have more effect than being an inferior version of Goth bonus.
    For 100 villagers you get 10 population. Goths get this as a civ bonus for free.

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  1. Maybe a little bit. Makes sense but also not super necessary imo.

  2. For sure.

  3. You usually wanna have like 150 vils when researching that tech so it can give you up to 15 population space. In that sense itā€™s not inferior to goths bonus. Itā€™s simply a version of it which costs quite a lot of res but also has a better effect.

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Donā€™t forget that mahayana is given to a civ that lives by the pop efficiency of itā€™s army.
So itā€™s way, way more powerful than the goths bonus which already quite strong as we see in the famous goth flood scenario.

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Nobody makes 150 villagers and 50 trade carts to use up all 200 space. And then research Mahayana to get space for 15 military units.

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You donā€™t win a game in post imperial age by having just a handful of extra units. Remember this doesnā€™t get researched automatically .

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Ofc not lol. Didnā€™t say that. 150 vils you make in 1v1. In tg you make less vils or delete some when producing trade carts.

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Deleting some means reducing the effect of this already underwhelming tech.

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Which is why trade carts should be included in the tech as op mentioned. Atm the tech is better for 1v1 because of that. Not sure whatā€™s your point though.

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Well. If it was like this Mahayana would be completely OP.
Itā€™s a UT, not a guaranteed game winning mechanic. You still need to actually play the game.

Itā€™s already one of the strongest lategame techs in the game. But being that, it doesnā€™t have to completely dominate.

Especially if we play TGs, it would be terrible if one single tech would lead to such a big discrepancy. Think about maps like michi, or even BF.

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And what about fishing boats? Arenā€™t they civilians as well.

I would argue having the bonus applied on transport boats and siege tower as well.

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LoL that is such an irony because I think it is one of the most useless lategame techs in the game.
Just change this tech altogether if it cannot be balanced as it is.

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As Iā€™m writing this I see you guys have said similar thing but whatever, I wrote it so Iā€™ll post it.

I find this underwhelming when considering the scenarios you might have 150 eco.
In 1v1 land maps post imp itā€™s fairly.
Team games you want 40 trade carts (maybe more) which means even with 150 eco you have only 110 vills and get only 11 pop extra.
Hybrid or water maps your fish donā€™t count so you run into a similar issue. If you donā€™t make many fish then youā€™re playing the map like itā€™s a land map and in order to take advantage of your tech youā€™re not taking advantage of the map. Tho tbf for this point, mahayana comes in mid to late imp, and while fish traps are better than farms most people donā€™t set up extensive fish trap eco so most people donā€™t ā€œtake advatage of the mapā€ at that stage anyways.
Of course, this is all without looking at hybrid/water teamgames where its double trouble.

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Yes they should imo as they are an eco unit.

What? If you do these units to begin with you make like 1 or 2.You need 10 siege towers to even free a single pop space. So basically zero effect for a scenario that would never happen.

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14

Imagine having 118 vills and 2 transport boats. You can get atleast 12 space instead of 11. You cannot say it is zero effect.

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Davyman considered different units seperately but, yeah if we include fishing ships and tradecarts then all eco units should just be clumped up and counted together.

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16

Just because you think something is true does not make it true.

Mahayana is a perfect tech for Bengalis, because it plays into what they want to do. Elephants are very costly, therefore you need more villagers to make them. Mahayana lets you have more eco and thus more army too. Itā€™s not an immediate ā€˜I winā€™ button, and it should never be (and no tech should ever be like that either), but it fits the Bengalis identity and design perfectly.

I will agree to it affecting trade/fishing ships, though. Tangentially, Iā€™d also love if fishing ships and trade units were also counted under your villager number. Always such a pain in teamgames to think you have low villager numbers, but are seemingly max pop because of trade (or fish). Would be a massive QoL change for me at least.

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The ability to toggle include them or not or have 2 numbers, one for with and without would be perfect. That way everyone can set it up the way they like.

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18

I donā€™t see how will you toggle a qol for ranked.

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Like you toggle anything else such as small trees, range mods or tiles??

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20

I mean including fishing boats count as civilian for Mahayana tech. Will it not be unfair for the player who has toggled it off.