Make India interesting again

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
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After thousands of India posts by many India mains. there civ countinues to get no changes, thanks to their effective & limited viability in 1v1.

But the civ really is getting behind, every patch after patch and there are certainly no interesting cards and mechanisms, that almost every civ has got by now.

ALSO there are TONS of ULTRA REDUNDANT cards that there exists. If you want to see the most usless cards ever for any civ , just visit the Indian cards in any age.

Here are some question that needs to be discussed to make the civ more “interesting” to play :

  1. Why there are cards that are never used ever in 25 years ?

  2. Why every elephant shipment costs a huge amount of shipment, they are a few decent shipment especially the age3 ones but shouldn’t there be atleast SOME elephant shipments that should cost resources especially for late game?

  3. Why there are no more create shipment in age2 ? only have 700c in age2 thats it :slight_smile: ?

  4. The sepoy revolt card lays redundant as it costs 2000W in age4, why can it be nerfed and improved to be an age3 card?

  5. Where are the new mechanics ? Double callable cards (red borders)? Cards with Blue/purple borders ?

  6. Why there are no more ways to get the Mango groves? out of Tower of victory ? Or maybe Make the mango cards red bordered?

  7. Mysoorean rockets added finally why not the, Diamond mines too ? Diamonds were only find in India till 1800s.

There is literally great scope of “EFFICIENCY” and Updating the whole deck with India. But its been ages, still nothing we get.

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Have shared ideas about mangoes before.

Akbar is said to have had an orchard of one hundred thousand mango trees.

Totapuri was the first mango variety exported to Iran and Central Asia. Totapuri Mango Groves will allow players to spend resources to obtain them without the need for shipping. They will still provide wood but the villagers who gather them can grenerate a small amount of exports at the same time.

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5 training cards are too much, and green jackets main effect is useless

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Great suggestions really.

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Someone suggested adding a diamond mine to Portuguese a while back (I’m a Port main) and I’m going to point out the same problem: Diamond mines have 100k coin in them. That is too much for any civ to have the ability to ship as a default card. You ship a diamond mine and you don’t have to leave base for coin for the entirety of a 1v1 game (and some team games for that matter). It’s too strong, there is no civ that should be able to get a diamond mine without revolting.

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what if mysorean rockets only have to be paid 2 times, then they come for free??

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Well yea thats an issue. but it still exists in the game.

DAMN! that sounds like great idea ! even a decreasing cost will also work. I hope DEVS are listening.

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Bro you have been desperately trying to buff india for years. I wonder if you play other civs or is it because you are indian. I agree asian civs need buffs. Not just india but maybe all non european civs need a buff for late game

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Si lo hacemos es por algo, no sin razón. Cada vez que India recibe un buff viene acompañado con 5 nerfs aleatorios y sin sentido.

Por ejemplo, el nerf a la mejora de cipayos imperiales, que se moviĂł a un envĂ­o de la edad IV; haciendo que sea obligatoria en tratado.

Otro cambio, la falta de artillería/daño AoE a distancia, “solucionado” con los cohetes, pero a expensas de perder el sumisnistro de madera y tener que pagar por ellos.

Todo mientras India tiene las unidades más caras (con dudosa eficacia) y sin recibir buffs económicos a la vez que todos los demás sí que lo hacen.

El intento del Karni Mata fue bueno. OP en supremacía? Vale pues ajustémoslo para tratado. Por ejemplo que beneficie más a la agricultura solo.

Luego tenemos la torre de la victoria, que da una ilusiĂłn de beneficio.

Y no hablemos de requerir 5 cartas de tiempo de entrenamiento…

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I never know why Indians get a card featured Royal Green Jacket.

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Well I post for the Civ I main, I dont deny that other civs doesnt need a buff, And here Im not asking for a Buff Its a request for an Update taht can include buffs at a cost of buff. I hope you might also have some opinions about the civ you main.

The goal being to update teh civ to new standards and meta. as well as make it more interesting.

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I like this line u said xD

Not just that there are tremendous amount of Useless cards that literally no one EVER used in the game EVER! What a wastage :confused:

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I agree with the sentiment in the title of this thread. India needs to be made interesting to play. India is an incredibly complex place and specifically during the time period of this game, there was a lot going on from which the developers can draw inspiration to give India a bit of a polish. I do have a list of things I’d like to see addressed, but first, I think it might be helpful to offer a broader vision of what I’d like to see India look like.

India has a problem similar to the Germans in that it is an amalgamation of many different peoples and principalities who vied for control over the lands we now call India and Germany. That means there’s a lot of diversity in the history and we occasionally see calls to split these two civs. To be clear, I think that’d be a disaster. A better approach would be to do what was done with Germany and offer a wide range of opt-in strategic options that reflect the various groups that comprise India. As I understand it (and I’m far from an expert here), most of India’s current design is inspired by the Mughal empire and ultimately the British Raj. There are a handful of nods to the Marathas and we throw in the elephants.

What I’d propose is to give India a distinct set of buff card synergies that line up with the various empires that held prominence in India at the time. If you want to play as the Islamic gunpowder empire (the Mughal) under Akbar, you can card into the camels, rajputs, and artillery. If you want to play more of the British Raj-style, a more consulate-centered infantry and artillery army featuring the sepoys and gurkhas fits and cav from the consulate. And if you want to play a southern India (Vijayanagara)-inspired style, we have the urumi and elephants to give a high-powered, high-pop juggernaut of an army. Each of these has some specific trade-offs, stylistically, and that might serve as a frame work to give India a refresh that really embraces a fuller vision of the incredibly culture and history of India. I’d also like to see the Maratha get a bit more recognition as well. Letting them be outlaws is ok, but why not have an option where you would want to opt in to utilizing these guys to supplement your army and not just on certain maps? Surely one or more of these 3 main visions would line up with that?

With that basic idea in mind, I’d like to lay out some specific things I’d like to see addressed with India.

  1. There are a number of cards that are widely regarded as “useless.” No one uses them and they need a second look. Grazing comes to mind. Sumptuary Laws is another. They’re just terrible and even in Treaty, you’d never use them. A proper balance pass to evaluate India’s unique cards and ensure there are scenarios in which they’re all worth sending would be good.
  2. India has a slow start. They get some compensation for it with the Agra Fort to help with early game defense, but I totally understand a desire to give them a bit more of a boost in Age 2.
  3. The Indian mercs (arsonists and jat lancers) are honestly rather lackluster. The jat lancer in particular is in need of a buff, particulary when I have elephants that are so much better as a core part of my cavalry line.
  4. The wood economy with India is unique and works fine until the late game. Elephants in particular are highly dependent on wood. If you’re going to ask me to use wood for main line units like elephants and artillery in the late game, I must have access to wood in the late game. India gets no factories or other passive sources. I think the easiest solution is an INF grove card since it forces the villagers to stay on wood and doesn’t free up population space for the army which is already quite strong. Another option might be letting Grazing also draw a wood trickle from sacred cows.
  5. I’d like to see the Urumi made accessible in Age 3. By holding the mansabdar and INF cards to Age 4, they don’t really appear on the battlefield until anti-heavy infantry, especially falconets are essentially ubiquitous. They get ripped to shreds and as home city units, they’re not quick to replace.
  6. The flail elephants need to be made more attractive to use. These and the Iroquois Battering Rams have the same problem in that they’re overshadowed by better options by Age 4, so they really only have a tiny niche of time when you’d think to use them, and they’re fairly vulnerable things.
  7. Add in access to the Master Surgeons card. You can get surgeons via the Brits at the consulate and make field hospitals, but trying to heal 4000 hp on an elephant in Age 5 is just non-viable. It’s faster to just let the thing tank til it dies and train a new one. I don’t honestly care if it’s surgeons, but getting really high-throughput single-target healing would help make those elephants something you might want to try and rescue out of a bad fight and heal up, especially the mansabdars.
  8. Can we use the Age 2 Theaters card to make Maratha units more attractive to use?

I’m not an expert here but I hope some of these ideas can help refocus India into something that’s a bit more interesting to play.

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I like that approach and I’m all for it, I just have one thing. Wouldn’t the healing problem disappear if the Devs fixed the Asian explorers and gave these civs real saloons and “churches” instead of this mixed up pudding?

My idea stems from this post Asian Heroes and Healers Rework

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I am once again asking for an Indian split. The current Indian civ is dumb. In fact, the religious focus of all Asian civs and settlements is dumb.

And I don’t like the idea of basically making a civ good at everything so people can just roleplay what they prefer, especially when people are currently complaining about content bloat in other civs (why is it okay if India does it but wrong if anyone else does?).

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Yes I get your problem, but we will never get an Indian split. The same stands for Germany, Italy, … . The Devs themselves said it. So why do you not instead bring up ideas to make these civs as unique as possible with the idea that each major group they present has units that you can use. (I hope that sentence makes sense)

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Germany does it, why can India not do the same?

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The devs never said an Indian split is never going to happen, they said a German split won’t and used Indians as an example of why (and Chinese as well for some reason), which is seriously dumb.

I don’t care about German split personally but TAD civ design should be completely abandoned for all I care.

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I get what you mean, especially with their design, but with the tempo we are getting things now requesting a full complete rework for 3 civs and not even having a blueprint for how they should look like doesn’t make this idea particularly attractive to the Devs.

It’s just it is what it is man.

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That’s like not comparable at all
################################################################################################################################# ################################################################################################################################# India also has a lot more Ethnic groups than Germany alone.