Malay need Bloodlines and / or Champions


We only ever rarely see the 2-handed swordsmen play from Malay, especially in team games. Even with Forced Levy I don’t think giving them champs would be OP.

And elephants lacking bloodlines really hurts. So I’d be in favour of buffing one of these two things and slightly nerfing the faster advancing age time from 66% to 50% faster if need be.

Champions would be a joke. They would be like Goths then. No thanks.

Malay Battle Elephants are be quite deadly in the early game. And sometimes even good Post IMP. Are like Rams that can defend themselves. Less armored than the other elephants, but much cheaper.


In fact Malay had Champions at the Rajas beta but lacked the last armor upgrade, even at that point that was broken.

Yeah. It would be a joke.

If am forced to buff their elephants. Give them second stable armor upgrade. That’s it. It will still keep their elephants having a lack of armor identity.

Also Thalassocracy / Harbours is a useless tech on land maps. Should be an upgrade at the dock and Castles should have another unique tech which actually applies to land maps.

Maybe it’s just me then. My win rate with Malay is terrible.


I’m the other way around, my winrate with them is really good. Agree with you, Harbor should be a thing as soon as you reach Castle Age and give them something else as UT.
The awful Stables should be their thing, they have the only viable Elephant in 1v1 games because it’s cheaper, don’t make it OP

I consider FC elephants to be my default build order for any map with walls, or is closed in, at least when I pick Malay. Malay would also be one of my top picks for water maps.

I personally use them as an immediate follow-up to the Elephant rush in a lot of cases, to counter the almost inevitable Pikes. I have found though that it is better to just continually create elephants in a lot of cases.


The unit performs quite well in a lot of matchups. Especially in a lot of late-game trash battles it is basically straight-up winning.

The problems of the malay civ go way deeper and these proposed changes would make it only worse imo. The trashmen are strong enough.

Yes. To be honest, I don’t really consider Malay to have a problem. It’s about timing really, if you want to make use of the bonuses/UTs. If you miss the elephant rush, then the next big powerspike is probably going to be really lategame trashwars, where the THS becomes so good. Of course, they can win and stuff outside of that, those would just be what I would consider the main powespikes making use of their bonuses and techs.


I think that’s one of the important points. Malay look like they are intended to work with the timings, but it doesn’t work out like this. Imo this is what should be adressed.
One reason is ofc that often the techs after an aging up are actually more costly than the aging up itself. So it isn’t as much benefitiial to hit the next age earlier if you don’t have the eco behind to get all the techs right away.

And post number #945 about filling holes in civ’s tech tree.

Next on our show: Bracer to Malians and right after Bloodlines to Celts, stay tuned!

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FU THS is better than last armor lacked Champion. Champion is little better in melee fight but it is countered by even mass Skirmisher. Also THS doesn’t need expensive Champion upgrade. Goth Champion is good because it is supported by Huskarl and 100% creation speed. 65 food THS doesn’t feel better than 80 food generic Hussar. Decreasing food cost to 55 would be pleasant buff. Food is very valuable resource in the game. Converting 20 gold into 20 food isn’t great bonus for a Imperial Age unique tech. Forced Levy also very expensive tech which is 850f 500g.

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this from the guy who thinks we should have 95 gold kipchaks, because those would totally be useful.

In theory, the Dark Age to Feudal spike can be momentous, because of the extra villagers trained in relative safety. In practice, the Malay require sharper macro skills than any other civilization, because you simply have not accumulated the resources to easily exploit the time advantage.

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Do you ever say anything positive on this forum?
Or are you just a contrarian edgelord?


i just laugh because the one change i have seen him propose is so outlandish and borderline silly that it would be awful.
he wanted the kipchaks for other players to cost 95 gold each.
why would i buy kipchaks at 95 gold?

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Only when they are positively sure that something is a bad idea, which is usually whenever anyone makes a balance change suggestion.

In all fairness, posts about giving techs to civs that don’t really need them are quite common.

very true, but the person we are talking about also proposes stuff that is just…bad.

It’s not what you say, but how you say it. It seems some people are incapable of disagreeing without making snide sarcastic comments. I’m quite happy to get shot down; i even conceded on this thread that it’s probably just because my win rate with Malay is bad. So it’s not that i have a problem with people disagreeing, it’s that certain people literally never say anything positive and honestly it’s tiresome / borderline abusive trolling. A discussion starts, then it goes in a different direction and it’s interesting. Maybe the original suggestion was no good but the follow up suggestions in the comments might be. And when certain people only ever say negative things, you begin to wonder what they’re actually doing here, aside from to cause trouble.