Malians Camels new bonus

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

After all these new camel bonuses, Malians feel left behind now, let’s compare:

  • Byzantines: 25% cheaper camels.
  • Berbers: 15%/20% cheaper camels + self regen with Maghrebi Dromedaries.
  • Gurjaras: Camels deal 50% more bonus damage, train 25% faster and cost 25% less food wih Kshatriyas + extra melee armor from Frontier Guards.
  • Hindustani: Camels attack 25% faster and deal +2 attack vs buildings + Imperial Camel.
  • Saracens: Camels have +10 HP and Zealotry for another +20 HP.
    What have in common? all these civs have bonuses for camels that start in castle age, now Malians, which have really good camels, only get such strenght in Imperial after Farimba (+5 attack) and they now feel in a kinda unfair position, especially when they are limited to only pikemen without blast furnace but extra PA and the loss of free gold mining tech.

My suggestion:

  • New Bonus: Camel Riders take 25% less bonus damage and are more resistant to conversion.
2

But only the Berbers are as good as the Malians in the knight department.

5 Likes
3

Malians have so many different tools they really don’t need any better camels than their farimba ones.
Malians aren’t bad vs many camel civs cause they have a lot of stuff to counter camels otherwise.

1 Like
4

Tbh Malians have gotten a lot more slow and boring lately in general

2 Likes
5

They have become a bit streamlined agree. There is this kinda order how they are usually played:
archers into camels into infantry
gbeto is kinda rarely seen currently.

6

Yeah but I mean mostly that they have lost a lot of their strength early game which made them powerful and interesting. Maybe they should get their cheaper farms back, but rn the only interesting thing about Malians is their unique and varied but fairly underwhelming units

2 Likes
7

I used to be really liking malians… But pro play with them somehow destroyed my “illusion” about them.
I wished I never watched pros playing them… Malians felt better when I didn’t knew the pro malian meta…

8

I would not try to overload civs with too many bonuses. There are plenty of other African civs that will need camel bonuses in the future.

8 Likes
9

This suggestion would really fit some “camel” civ. I don’t feel Malians are intended to be some Camel civ. They are supposed be an Infantry civ, with the support of Cavalry and UU. Note that Castle UU come in late for most civs.

As of others, Berbers - Cavalry civ (native bonus for stable units, UT for Camels) with support of cavalry archers (Genitours, Camel Archers)

Hindustanis - Camel civ (native bonus, imperial age upgrade) with support of Gunpowder (which already comes in a bit late, UT) and UU Ghulam

Gurjaras - Cavalry civ (all 4 unit lines, native bonus, faster creation, earlier access and extra armor UT) with support of UU Chakram Thrower.

Byzantines - Defensive civ, and they lack Bloodlines and Blast Furnace

Saracens - Camel civ (native +10 HP, +20 HP UT, Mameluke UU) with support of wide tech tree (situational bonus for archers, FU CA and above average SO)

1 Like
10

Malians have very strong, fully upgraded camels with extra attack. Mali is very well balanced. I don’t see the problem.

3 Likes
11

Left behind?

Farimba Camels are arguably the best Camels in the game in the strategic sense of it. You cant go wrong while making them, they’re doing the job efficiently even against non-Cavalry units.

Stop inflating the game with bonuses, it’s a new level of an OCD.

What’s next, Ethiopians Camels now resist Town Centers arrows?

12

Why did they nerf Malians in the first place? Before Franks, Britons, Mayans and Chinese lol.

13

I think they didn’t think it was a nerf.
They wanted to free that bonus for bohemians.
But then they gave 2 mining bonusses to them…

14

Only after Imperial Age and getting Farimba for 600f and 450g.
Before that you have nothing.

15

As a matter of fact, Camels (except Mamelukes) do have bonus damage resistance, something which many people do not observe.

Camels resist 50% attack from other Camels and 20% (almost) from all other sources. Don’t believe me?

Pikes do +22 vs Cavalry, but +16 or +17 vs Camels.
Halbs do +32 vs Cavalry, but +26 vs Camels.
I am not sure about the numbers here too, but the numbers are approximately same - Eagle Scouts do +2 vs Cav, +1 vs Camels (since Castle Age), Warriors do +3 and +2, Elite Warriors do +4 and +3 respectively.

Similar is the case of Gen bow, I think it does +6 vs +4 in Standard form and +7 vs +5 in Elite form.

Chieftains provides +5 vs Cav and +4 vs Camels.

16

And rightfully so!
They do almost half the dps of the knight line, actually they do less damage than the light cavalry/Hussars against non-mounted units (except Hindustanis’ camels).

17

Thats not bonus damage resistance, thats having a different armor class.

Much the same as how elephants take more damage from pikes then knights do.
Or how cav archers take more damage from skirms than normal archers.

Its also why camels dont do the same bonus damage to esch other that they do to knights, leitis, etc

2 Likes
18

Well it is implemented by using different armour classes but the effect is kinda the same as damage resist. Conversely you could say that eles are weaker to bonus damage from spears & co.

2 Likes
19

Nah, bonus damsge resistance is a mechanic of the cataphract and sicilians.

Do they take less damage then knights. Sure. That’s not the same thoughm

20

The idea was implemented in AoC, when we didn’t have the bonus damage resist property. Except defensive structures, regular anti-cavalry units would do around 50% damage to Camels than they would do to Cavalry.

And yes, you could say that Elephants resist -100% (take 2x) damage from spear line, Flemish Militia and Kamayuks.

By the same logic, you could say that Cataphracts do not really have bonus damage resistance, they just have a non-negative armor for Cavalry class.

The Camel armor and Sicilian bonus is multiplicative while Cataphracts, Siege Elephants and Elite Genitours armor effect is additive.