Well they are usually better option to fight against cavalry and cavalry archer. But only if you get the number. Easier in teamgames but in 1v1 it is hard. The composition of Arbalest and Camels is in most situation the better option.
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Buffing Mamelukes is risky, they are extremely powerful in groups and their cost already balances them, any buff should be discrete or then we will be here asking for a nerf
Mamelukes can stay away from any cavalry unit, Heavy Camels don’t
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May i ask your rank? i decided to stop trusting players opinions, alleged math calculations like the “but slavs farms are faster with hand cart” they were bugged since release, there was no way to prove that other than paper.
So i stick with my empirical knowledge which hasn’t been wrong, mamelukes were changed in Rise of rajas, adding frame delay, mameluke on HD and the wololokingdoms versions is trash, it loses to anything, even paladins trades well vs them, that is their current state there, i complained a lot back then.
On DE they reduced slightly the halb bonus they added back at rise of rajas and it has a better response, but the frame delay added hasn’t changed, it makes no sense for the mameluke to lose vs arambai, heavy camel already beats mameluke, but imperial camel is beyond that, while indians never used camel raiders, the imperial camel is a Saracens unit, they should be the truly and stronger camel civ in the game, try to fight as pkt indians vs saracens to feel the impotency to have nothing to fight vs indians, cause even if you manage to get zealotry heavy camels it is still losing to the imperial camel, without mention the HUGE economy difference and that IMP camel has a reduced training time and insane bonus vs buildings, along with the better pierce armor making it superior to support flanks.
I remember the all mighty mamelukes from AOC but let me tell you they are not the same on DE cause of the frame delay, so they are not as good at hit and run as they were and there is a civ with an unit that obliterates them being cheaper not castle dependent, so yeah there is no reason to invest into that unit, to back up my argument there are thousands of high level team games were you don’t see mamelukes for a reason despite they are amazing at killing battle eles, so even if you think they are good, they aren’t at any decent level.
There is nothing wrong with mameluk frame delay, it is lower than the one of mangudai.
I also think camels are too strong vs mamelukes. Maybe the anti Mameluke bonus can be reduced or completely removed from them, otherwise mamelukes are useless in teamgames.
The rest is not pointed at you.
We had a lenghty discussion about mamelukes here a couple of months ago and i think in the end most agreed thay a slight (i proposes +5f - 10g) cost reduction would be fair and enoigh. That could make them viable in 1v1s, so ita okay they are pretty useless in team games.
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Crazy idea that will almost certainly never happen, but is still fun to think about: Adjust Zealotry’s values so that it becomes a Castle Age tech, then make a new Imperial Age tech that replaces the Saracen Knight’s gold cost with a wood cost. Maybe remove Bloodlines and replace it with a +Camel unit HP civ bonus if trash Knights with full upgrades would be too powerful, even in the Imperial Age.
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It was 0 frame delay back at aoc days…
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For Persians, it’s the trashbow. So it’s a good counter.
But other archers are not trash
Why do they need a trash counter? Eagles, cataphracts and throwing axemen don’t have a trash counter. And both berserk and kamayuk hard counter every trash unit I can think of. Doesn’t correlate with their power at all though. Eagles and Berserks are great units, Throwing Axeman is situational, Cataphracts and Kamayuks are almost never used.
You need to buff them A LOT to make up for market nerf. Probably near-zero frame delay and +1 PA. But something like that could easily turn them into unstopable force in team game or on black forest.
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you bring up some valid points - but the eagle for example can be countered quite cheaply with just swordsman line units.
the cataphract has the lowest pierce armor of a cavalry unit that isn’t a camel.
the throwing axeman can’t run away, and loses to knights and archers.
the mameluke? can run from archers and pikes, beats cavalry, and laughs at infantry in general.
the only units that can phase them are archers and skirms.
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True. But Cataphracts, for example are expensive to make even in TG and are not that great vs heavy cav.
Eagles’ counter is honestly cheap as the militia line are cheap units (tho not trash)
Throwing axemen are still countered by a vast number of units anyways
Yeah but the mamelukes are super weak to any archers, even skirms would counter them hard even without the CA bonus.
And considering how much it costs a mameluke, and how cheap are the archers or skirms, you would always counter them cost effective.
Yes they can run away, but they can’t deal damage if the archers scare them away every time they try to close in.
-15 gold and Zealotry cost reduction the least.
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I’m confident the next patch will buff Mamelukes and Zealotry because everyone is complaining.
What? First of all they dont have Cav archer armor, they have regular archer armor and neither would ESkirms hard counter Mamelukes without the archer bonus, nor do they now. They deal 7 damage and receive 8 (10 for Elite, 11 when both fully upgraded), meaning it takes 5 or 4 hits from the Mameluke to kill the skirm, while it takes a minimum of 10 hits and a maximum of 19 hits for an elite skirm to kill a Mameluke.
This results in a time to kill of 10-8s for the Mamemeluke and one of 30-57 for the Skirmisher (most common probably 39-45).
Meaning the Mameluke is 3-7 times stronger than the Skirmisher while being only 2.3 times as expensive. I would not consider that to be a hard counter…
Mamelukes really are not bad, they are just way too situational.
Well I’m just at 1400 elo, and I don’t see pros using them, but from my own experience they can work really well against Cav only civs, such as Franks and Cav archer civs, such as Mongols, Tartars and Huns. They have their use case, in which they are really good, they are just a bit too expensive to train and upgrade, but there are a couple of civs that do not really have any decent answer to them.
Well -15g is a lot 
It’s a strong unit, a small discount would be significant already, like -5f -5g. Maybe they’ll ve viable in more situation.
With FU on both sides, a group of 20 skirms kill one mameluke in one volley. With their range they would kill 2 mameluks before they start firing… So yes when the mameluks get closed they can kill fast but skirms are way more cheaper and faster to produce. I agree they’re not a hard counter, but a really efficient one.
Yeah, I’m not arguing about them being a counter or not. But they definitely wouldn’t be one without the bonus damage. and they are not a super hard counter right now either. I mean they are a much weaker counter to Mamelukes as to Cav archers. Maybe comparable to, if not still a bit worse than countering Mangudai. Viable in large battles, but otherwise only a slight deterrent.
Five gold is nothing. Keshiks already got their cost halved.
Keshiks are also quite weak, being a knight with lower armor and less damage.
10 ressources makes Mamelukes cheaper than knights, and they have a pretty cheap elite upgrade.
one could reduce the cost of zealotry though.
this units is completly useless without trade thanks to his gold cost like some uu like boyar, cataphracts…
but when trade is up this unit is sssso strong they need a ressource cost change especially in terms of gold but a nerf in term of stats to not being too op.
Yeah sorry, I got confused with something else…
Yes, but they are cost effective, about 15 skirms 2-shots a mamelukes without factoring in the archer bonus (other they about one-shot a mameluke), which is 85 gold wasted then, who cares if mamelukes kills the skirms, you can for sure spam more skirms than mamelukes, and you are saving gold.