Maps and Minor Civs imbalance by region

After seeing a few threads on the aoe3 reddit, I noticed the great imbalance in the number of maps and natives we have in the game, with a clear preference to north america and an absolute abandonment of south america, along with having too few asian minors. The proportion is as follows:

North America


Credits: u/JadenJames03

  • Maps:
    Alaska
    Yukon
    Northwest Territories
    Artic Territories
    Cascade Range
    Rockies
    Dakota
    Saguenay
    New England
    Plymouth
    California
    Colorado
    Great Plains
    Great Lakes
    Baja California
    Sonora
    Painted Desert
    Ozarks
    Carolina
    Texas
    Bayou
    Florida
    Mexico
    Yucatan
    Caribbean
    Hispaniola
    26 maps

  • Natives:
    Caribs
    Cherokee
    Comanche
    Cree
    Maya
    Nootka
    Seminole
    Apache
    Cheyenne
    Huron
    Klamath
    Navajo
    Zapotec
    13 natives

We have north american maps and 13 natives, by far the most represented area of the game. This representation is fine, we should have other regions get to this level. I wouldn’t add any more map and maybe one more native.

Asia


Credits: u/JadenJames03

  • Maps:
    Siberia
    Mongolia
    Manchuria
    Kamchatka
    Himalayas
    Yellow River
    Punjab
    Deccan
    Ceylon
    Bengal
    Parallel Rivers
    Central Plain
    Korea
    Honshu
    Hokkaido
    Indochina
    Malaysia
    Borneo
    Indonesia
    19 maps

  • Natives:
    Bhakti Temple
    Jesuit Mission
    Shaolin Temple
    Sufi Mosque
    Udasi Temple
    Zen Temple
    6 natives

Asia is in second place, with 19 maps and only 6 native minors. Also, as the map shows, there are certain areas that are not represented, or many maps that are too big compared to NA maps, which divide better the geography of the region (seriously, do we need Rockies AND Cascade Range but one big Siberia?). Also, any new native tribe shouldn’t be based only on religious settlements, although one or two more religious minors might be fun. We need more asian minor relating to trade or water. Also, it would be nice to diversify the maps and add the blank spaces.

South America


Credits: u/JadenJames03

  • Maps:
    Orinoco
    Andes
    Amazonia
    Gran Chaco
    Araucania
    Pampas Sierras
    Pampas
    Patagonia
    8 maps
  • Natives:
    Tupi
    Mapuche
    Incas (only on Andes Upper, should be changed)
    2 (3) natives

By far the worst representation in the game, which sadly is a staple of videogames when representing south america. Only 8 maps and 2 natives, this region has so much more to offer. Andes is way to big and ca be divided in two maps: the mountainous side and the desert near the coast. Araucania is big too, and also have different regions which could serve as divisions for new maps. Amazon is just an insult, the whole jugle represented in just one map: here we can have a black forest kind of map, the regular amazon map, an Amazon Delta map, similar to Deccan but with no crossings, fewer natives and a river that divides when reaching the sea. The rest are fine, but can be divided as well (again, Rockies and Cascade Range deserve different maps but not Patagonia or Pampas Sierra?). Lastly, a map of the Galapagos Island and Malvinas (Falklands) would be a nice addition to naval maps.

What do you think? Would you like more maps/natives to sub represented areas? Also, how many African maps and natives do you think we are going to get?

22 Likes

I absolutely want more natives for South America and Asia, especially with Asia in my case, as you have really weird choices in it, with Indian Sufis in the middle east, American natives in Kamchatka, and Japanese Buddhists in Korea.

Actually, screw it, I’m gonna make a list of all the maps and what’s out of place on them!

6 Likes

I also have a feeling that the civs themselves aren’t really evenly distributed.

South America If that is badly done, the region of Araucania is not sonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn gigantic. There is a lack of a Map between Chile and Peru that is very characteristic because it is the warmest desert in the world, It also lacks a little love for Brazil, it is the fifth largest country in the world, it is only represented by a map, You could put a map in the bays and the Brazilian gulf since it is also well characterized by itself in its geography.

1 Like

Ok, let’s start the critique I have for all existing maps! This in terms of natives, some maps have other issues, such as the always fun trope of misplaced wildlife.

Alaska

The Nootka live in North-West Canada, but not in Alaska, a better native would be Inuit.

Amazonia

Maya and Zapotec need to go, replaced by Ge/Je and Yanomami people.

Andes

Besides the Mapuche, add in a Quechua people (more on that later).

Andes - Upper

Replace the Inca with the Quechua (seriously, more on that later).

Arctic Territories

Add in the Inuit maybe. The map is meant to have no natives as part of its unique balance, so maybe don’t add any natives.

Baja California

All these tribes need to go, none of them are native to Baja. This map appears to be central Baja, so put in the Cochimi people.

California & Cascade Range

The Nootka are from further north, they don’t really fit here.

Ceylon

Japanese Zen Buddhists… Just no. The people of Sri Lanka are Theravada Buddhists, while Zen is a type of Mahayana Buddhism.

If you really want Buddhists on the map, repurpose the Shaolin temple socket and rename it to just Buddhist Temple, while having 3 different versions of the architecture: East Asian, South Asian, and South-East Asian. Rattan Shields fit in all three regions thematically, only the architecture and the language the warriors speak needs to change. Use the Indian architecture for the Ceylon temples.

Colorado

This map says it has no natives, but that’s not true it always spawns Comanche villages. Cheyenne, Apache, and Navajo all could fit here as well. In fact, they should have different climate versions of the map with different tribes, but the same map layout!

Dakota

A bit north for the Comanche. Perhaps add the Blackfoot tribe to the game and put them in here.

Fertile Crescent

The Sufis are rather out of place here. I know that Sufis are found everywhere in the Islamic world, but the Mughal War Elephants feel out of place here. During this time the Fertile Crescent was usually ruled over by the Ottoman Empire, and many people tried repeatedly to revolt against them. Add a Bedouin tribe to the game and place it here instead of the Sufis. And yes, a Tribe, not a TAD style temple. They can reuse the tribe in their African maps, and already have units that can be used for the Bedouins.

Florida

Caribs in Florida? No. Replace them with the Creek.

Great Plaines

Add the Blackfoot here too.

Himalayas, Himalayas - Upper

Add native *Sherpa settlements, they can have a traditional Tibetan swordfighter, like the Shaolin Rattan Warrior, as swords are important in Tibetan Buddhism.

Hokkaido, Kamchatka

Add the Ainu. They’ve been a repressed and discriminated against people in Japan, and today there is still much prejudice against them. Not having them in their native lands feels… Like erasure.

Oh, and remove the Klamath and Nootka from Kamchatka, they are nowhere near native to there! You can add the Inuit to Kamchatka alongside the Ainu.

Indochina, Indonesia

Sufi, really? Replace them with a South-East Asian Buddhist temple, which I’ve mentioned before.

Korea

Zen… Sohei… As Korean natives. Koreans, the people who were repeatedly invaded by the Japanese, are being depicted as Japanese in your game… Please at least replace these with an East-Asian style Buddhist temple, which I mentioned before.

Malaysia

Replace the Sufi with the Shafei, give them Silat warriors armed with Pedang swords.

Manchuria, Mongolia

Again we have Japanese Sohei and Sufi mystics here. Add Manchu nomadic settlements and rework the mercenary unit into a native warrior. You can replace it with Mangudai in the mercenary roster.

Northwest Territories

One of the northernmost parts of Canada, yet it has California and Vancouver natives… Replace them with Inuit.

Orinoco

For some reason we have Maya here instead of Caribs. Replace them with Caribs, and add Yanomami.

Pampas

Far too south for the Tupi. Replace them with Puelche people instead.

Bonus Idea

Maybe add some Jesuits to some of the American maps, they missioned there too.

Quechua and Blackfoot!

So I mentioned I’d get to them later. I forgot. So here is me doing it in an edit!

My idea was to recycle the old, existing Inca minor native into a new civ with the same techs and units but named Quechuas, to cover a broader range of Quechua peoples, without needing to revoice the units or change the techs. They can be given a slight makeover and some name changes so they aren’t so easily confused for the Plumed Spearman and Bolas Warrior.

For the Blackfoot, the same can be done with the old Lakota minor civ, using the same techs and units, but with new names and a visual makeover. These would need new voice lines though.

10 Likes

caatinga map in my region

4 Likes

pretty sure Korea only has jesuits.

4 Likes

My suggestion of the map of Asia:

Maps
The yellow parts aim for the blank spaces.

  • Jiangnan
  • Sichuan
  • Yungui
  • Formosa
  • Ryukyu
  • Felipinas
  • Siam
  • Tian Shan

In the other hand,

  • The original Honshu could be adjusted a little and become the map “Ryukyu”.
  • New 2 maps for Japan, “Kanto” and “Kansai”. Both of them could be used for Regicide.
  • Hokkaido should be renamed “Ezochi” and get a new design. The original one fits “Kanto” actually.
  • If we need a map featuring the volcano, there can add a map “Mindanao” and let the map “Felipinas” renamed “Luzon”.

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Native Settlement
No Mongolian and Manchu people since they are already in the Chinese army.

  • Tibetan Buddhism temple
    Unit: Monastery Guard (fast-moving halberdier)
    Location: Himalayas, Mongolia, Manchuria

  • Hui people
    Unit: Hui Horseman (lancer), Hui Rifleman (skirmisher using Russian rifles with long range)
    Location: Tian Shan, Himalayas

  • Kazakh nomads
    Unit: Kazakh Horseman (heavy cavalry who only cost food)
    Location: Tian Shan, Mongolia

  • Miao people/Tujia people
    Unit: Tu Bing (Hmong Trooper, heavy infantry with shield and javelin)
    Location: Yungui, Parallel Rivers

  • Yao people/Zhuang people
    Unit: Lang Bing (Wolf Trooper, shock infantry good at counter shock infantry and light cavalry)
    Location: Yungui, Jiangnan

  • Northern Shaolin
    Unit: Shaolin stick Monk (fast-moving heavy infantry, similar to Rodelero)
    Location: Yellow River, Central Plain, Sichuan

  • Southern Shaolin (renamed from the original Shaolin Temple)
    Location: Central Plain, Sichuan, Jiangnan

  • Taoist temple
    Unit: Wuxia (swordsman with stealth ability and good at counter natives, mercenary, outlaw and hero)
    Location: Yellow River, Central Plain, Sichuan, Jiangnan

  • Formosan people
    Unit: Formosan Warrior (skirmisher with high melee attack and good at kill settlers)
    Location: Formosa

  • Ainu people
    Unit: Matagi (Winter Hunter, fast-moving archer with hunting and treasure-collecting abilities)
    Location: Ezochi (Hokkaido)

  • Theravada Buddhism temple (replace Zen in the south and southeast Asia)
    Unit: Flail Elephant (actually good to be a native unit than Indian unit since it comes form Sri Lanka)
    Location: Ceylon, Parallel Rivers, Siam, Indochina

  • Shinto grand shrine
    Unit: Kunoichi (similar to Priestess, having the healing and stealth abilities), Orchard Rickshaw
    Location: Kanto, Kansai

  • Zen temple (same as the original one but no longer located out of Japan)
    Location: Kanto, Kansai

  • Sufi Mosque (same as the original one but only located in the south and southeast Asia)
    Location: Borneo, Deccan, Indochina, Malaysia, Indonesia

  • Jesuit Mission (same as the original one and located in Kanto and Kansai too)

  • Bhakti Temple (same as the original)

  • Udasi Temple (same as the original)

Special Native Settlement
There is already a TP, just defeat the treasure guards and convert it.
Already get the ranged attack and higher HP, the card Advanced Trading Post will improve the HP and give it the bombard attack ability.

  • Joseon
    Unit: Dangpa Pikeman, Gakgung Archer, Hwando Swordsman, Korean Arquebusier, Woldo Cavalry, Hwacha, Turtle Ship (at the dock)
    Location: Korea

  • Ryukyu Kingdom
    Unit: Ryukyu Royal Warrior (similar to Samurai but no trample)
    Location: Ryukyu

Siberia
It is such a big region so maybe separated into 2 maps or more.
Natives:

  • Koryak people
  • Chukchi people
  • Evenk people
  • Yakut people
  • Yupik people (in Alaska too)

By the way, I also hope Greenland and Lapland being introduced, then adding the Inuit and Sámi people.

6 Likes

Can you ask for a similar map of Africa with maps from DLC?

Yes. But the game is viewed by a North American point of view hence the “native representation” done for DE, which is a shame because SA is huge and Asia is outstanding.

Anyway: more SA maps are a missed opportunity. Amazon is so rich, so big and so diverse that seeing that land map cut by a horizontal stream of water being deemed as “Amazon” makes me sad.

4 Likes

I am not sure about how to make S. America more correct since I do not know too much about it.
But I still regard that there should be a place for the Muisca people.
Hope your suggestion about S. America and my suggestion about Asia could be read by the dev.

1 Like

I like your division, Im going to make one for SA too. I think Asia is an area that needs more representation too. The new maps that represent the north half of africa have 15 maps, and the whole of asia have 19. I think if we get a southeast asia dlc, they can rework some parts of the maps with your suggestions

3 Likes

For California, Chumash or Miwok makes most sense.

South America has some options for new maps: Muisca, Jivaro, Kuikuro, Aymara, Diaguita, Tehuelche, Charrua, Kuikuro, Guarani, Jama-Coaque.

4 Likes

In legacy it was worse, at least they added pampas sierras and split andes in 2

1 Like

Nope, they also have Sohei.

Quechua are basically a subset of Inca. Muisca would be a better fit for the upper Andes, and then Mapuche can fill in the south.

So, I made an African map with the new ones that were added in the preview patch:

  • Maps:
    Atlas
    Tassili
    Niger River
    Pepper Coast
    Gold Coast
    Savanna
    Niger Delta
    Lake Chad
    Tripolitania
    Darfur
    Nile Valley
    Sudd
    Highland
    Great Rift
    Horn
    15 maps
    Dunes (PUP)
    Sahel (PUP)
    Ivory Coast (PUP)
    Swahili Coast (PUP)
    19 maps with PUP

  • Also, we have some maps that are detailed but not present in the game yet:
    Siwa Oasis
    Saharan Routes
    Arabia
    Congo
    Lake Victoria
    24 maps if these ones come to be

  • As for natives, we have:
    Akan
    Berbers
    Somalis
    Sudanese
    Yoruba
    5 natives

So for Africa we have 15 new maps, with 4 more coming and other 5 probably being worked for future patches, making it 19 - 24 maps for North and Central Africa. If they decide to add south african maps, we could easily have more than 30 for the whole continent, making it the best represented map in terms of geography. As for native tribes, North America is still the best in terms of representation, while Africa becomes the second region with less natives, above south america’s 2 and asia’s 6 minor civs.

Still, the fact that the PUP comes with 4 new maps makes me think they will deliver with new maps, and after they are done with Africa they might take a look to the other regions. Also, I’d like to say that I feel devs have done a good job dividing the region and that I hope we can see the same kind of care if they decide to rework the others.

10 Likes

Had no idea the pup has new maps. Cool.

4 Likes

So these are the maps that are slated to be in the game soon?

I was on vacation and unfortunately I’m not up to date with the news right now.

I think South Africa will be added in the next DLC. It would add 2 brand new South African civs, 3 Historical Battles, 5 Minor Nations and new maps that would complete Africa in a perfect way. It would be nice if such a DLC cost the same as the African Royals DLC. My types of new civs in a DLC like this are Congolese civ and Mutapa civ. The New Minor Nations could be Zulu and Madagascar, among others.

Overall, I could use a South American DLC that would add a lot more Minor Nations, add new maps, 2 brand new civs (Muisca civ and Mapuche civ), and some Historical Battles for South American indigenous civs.

I don’t like the Asian Minor Nations that are based on orders, not nations. I think the future Asian DLC should add brand new maps and new Minor Nations based on Asian nations. For example, DLC adding Persians civ and Arabs civ (based on Omani Empire) would add Middle Eastern content etc

1 Like