So I was playing a 3v3 treaty game the other day and one of the opposition players revolted to Maya, no big deal. But when the fighting started I noticed how insane the stats are for some of the Mayan troops - particularly the Cruzob Infantry. I’d never really come up against a Mayan player before and this really caught me by surprise. (for context I’ve been playing AOE3 for well over a decade).
Just to put into context:
A higher attack than an Imperial Redcoat
A greater range than an Imperial Regular
Faster than a Exalted Ashigaru (most of the time)
A higher melee resist than any Musketeer, Halberdier or Pikeman
A RANGE MULTIPLIER AGAINST HAND CAV!!!
I’m aware that the Mayan revolt doesn’t have access to cavalry units, but having an over all decent economy and spammable Cruzobs still seems a bit over powered to me.
Do you guys agree??
If not, how should I play to counter them??
I agree, but many will disagree because the Mayans lack heavy cavalry and dragons; Cruzoob infantry is supposed to have more speed, range, and multiplier at range against heavy cavalry to mayan army successfully counter enemy heavy cavalry.
I consider that although the Cruzoob infantry is strong. The main problem of the Mayans is their infinite population of holcan spearmen.
What is the price and population space of the unit?
80 food, 30 coin, 1 population, 36 seconds.
Add the flag, spearman and their skirmishers plus inf castles
And how much time did it take him to pull it off ?
Not really op considering how much time it takes to have that many shipment required to be that gigachad musketeer, pike, and skirmisher. When playing Maya strats it’s technically an hour long game, and you know how long it stuck in Fortress Age just to send the necessary card to buff the unit, then revo to Yucatan which technically means you’re still in Age3 while fighting Imperial age opponent. The only fastest way I’ve tried on this revolution is by dedicating 60-80 settler on food and spam Veteran Insurgente from 6-8 barrack on suicide run with Seven Laws card just to get 10XP for every 70food.
The only way for Maya to counter cannon is by non imperial Light Cannon and suicide Insurgente
Yeah that’s the scary part of Maya, on some very long game it can reach more than 50 pop free 500 hp musketeer, they should have a build limit of only 30 I think.
The Mayans require many shipments, so the Mayan revolution will hardly be seen in supremacy. It is a revolution used mostly for 60 minute treaty matches with high resources and on maps with access to a trade route. If it is a game of treaty 60, of empire wars and there is a Mexican player, it is most likely that he will revolutionize to Mayans.
I consider the “infinite population” of holcan spearmen to be a “problem” comparable in treaty games to the old wanderlust that could be sent indefinitely.
To be fair I have only come up against them on an hour long treaty game, so that might bias my view.
The game did last for over 2 hours. And my team did win. But it was because the two allies of the Mayan player were quite weak. There was a period where the Mayan player was holding off a 3v1.
Three Light Cannons seemed to be enough to take out my artillery with one hit.
Yess, it always felt like my army was out number when I was playing against Maya.
The question was, how long it took them to get this strong. Because I remember that the Mayan units are farely weak without shipments.
That’s fine, my first impression just like what you experienced.
Still, Imperial Falconet is the best option to deal with them. In summary Maya unit roster is this
Yucatecos Insurgente: Cheap-instant trained Musketeer (They got 7 speed when fully upgraded)
Cruzob Infantry: 60+ damage, 400+ HP Musketeer
Maya Javelineer: 500+ HP, no pop space Musketeer
Cruzob Avenger: Sonic Skirmisher with 40 ranged damage
Field Cannon: regular light cannon but can reach 300 hp, damage is low since no imperial upgarade
Captured Mortar: normies version
Jesuit Conquistador: normies version, 12 limit
Against Maya, any cavalry is definetely out of question (except Ophricnik to some extend), so falconet is the choice here. Imperial Falconet with no card deal 525 damage against infantry, stack them on top skirmisher, and some culverin to snipe their cannon should give Maya hard time. Some walling can stop the Maya Insrgente flood too.
So far I don’t think Aztec, Lakota, and India got answer against full Maya flood.
Mayans need to stay several minutes at age 3 to get all the important cards that they won’t have access to later on. once they are revolutionized as yucatan they must remain as yucatan for several minutes to obtain the important cards that are exclusive to yucatan. Once they are Mayans, he will still have several important cards pending to be sent and to increase the limit of holcan spearmen. In addition, the Maya need to accumulate a large amount of resources to support a “war of attrition” (in treaty, if all players have a similar level, it is normal for the game to become a war of attrition.).
So, the Mayan player needs to be in a 60 minute treaty match, preferably with high resources and empire wars. Once the 60 minute treaty is over, the Mayan player will want the map to favor the frontal encounter of the armies and in which the battlefield is far from his city, so that he is not surprised with a quick and devastating attack on his economy. (The Mayan player will seek to lengthen the game.). Therefore, the Mayans will be seen mainly in Atlas and Orinoco (in Orinoco they are seen less than in Atlas, since Orinoco lacks a trade route).
Once the 60 minute treaty is up, as the armies fight head-on, experience accumulates quickly and the Mayan player will be able to grow his army of holcan spearmen with relative ease.
Therefore, the Mayans are only a problem for those who like big head-on collisions of fully upgraded armies (I think that’s what most 40 or 60 treaty players are looking for), but don’t want to play as mayans.
The solution I can think of is that the cards that can be sent infinite times do not increase the population of holcan spearmen or that they only do so the first time they are sent.
That is something very true. Even limiting the population of the Holcan spearmen, for the Aztecs and Lakota it is a guaranteed GG if they face the Mayans.
If it needs to be 60 minutes peace, then it’s not op.
depends on the context; in a supremacy game it’s absolutely not OP, in fact it’s unfeasible. But in a treaty game it is different.
There is supposed to be some balance in all game modes (except for games with infinite resources.). If you have a civ that is excessively dominant in a game mode it is unfair to players who like that game mode, but don’t want to use that civ.
Indeed i understand that.
I love to repeat this, but : " They could use the TREATYONLY techs to balance it for treaty ^-^ "
You need more than 1 hour of wind up to be able to keep up with imperial age civs. Revolutions need something going for them.
Something to also keep in mind is last time I checked Maya doesn’t have the 50% coin gather rate tech.
Maya is a revolt designed to replace age 5 so the gaps it has are kinda rough.
It can be strong in treaty, but I’d be hesitant to call it OP. Maybe I haven’t seen/used it enough to know for sure.
If someone is using it and it’s 1v1 you should basically be able to go skirm + horse art + culv. Not sure what Aztec or Lakota could do though…
if you stay long enough in 3rd age, for the cards to actually have an economy later on… i am not sure you are realistically competing long term either.
There is a strategy that proposes to build the most amount of route TP to gain the maximum amount of experience possible and get all the cards before the end of the treaty, but this depends on if the team members decide to give up the route TP.
The truth is that I don’t know what makes this revolution so strong, but if it rivals civilizations of the imperial age, it already says a lot.
I don’t think the game is designed or balanced for zero possibility of fighting for any length of time. So basically any ‘treaty’ game it wouldn’t be designed or balanced for, it is merely an option allowing non-standard gameplay. It is better to balance around the standard gameplay versus non-standard. Part of the balance in itself could be that Maya is tough to get to because so many cards and ages are prerequisites, but once you get to Maya, the opponent is screwed. By eliminating all possibility to harass or attack the Maya player and getting to Maya without any fear of attack or having to devote any resources or cards towards defense, it causes an imbalance.