Mechanics and characteristics of Age of Empires 3, which should not be missing in Age of Empires 4

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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+1

This is very good point, if I remember right, the heavy ccavalry "costs " more population than infantry In AoE3, same in Warcraft 3 and StarCraft 2

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I approve all of this
i will add more fauna and flora relative to the region
it’s more inmersive and beatiful
and maybe regional mercenaries with a european tavern/asian monastery building


They quit that for HRE,but the English and the new Malians have that


That’s true
AoE 4 needs to be diferent to their predecessors


That it for what they go very conservative to don’t alienate the AoE 2 fanbase how it happened with AoE 3


Yes,but is very impractical and cumbersome
with the batch training it is more fast and dynamic
that why the mayority of the RTS post-2005 had that


Yes,but i think it matter of get used with the creation time of the units


Yes,they need to put diferent types of pop cost
the more expensive units cost more pop


Yes,i prefer call them “bandits camps” (similarity to those of the campaigns) where you could recruit diferent number of mercenaries with a diferent costs of gold:1000 of gold (a little army with 5 MAA and 5 archers) 2500 of gold (a middle army with 10 horsemens and 10 crossbowmens) and 5000 of gold (a big army with 30 knights and 5 trebs)


That’s true
the HC shipment system fits with the colonial era,but its will be out of place in a medieval game how is AoE4
i don’t believe that they could put that system in a form of vizier points from the Ottomans
maybe they can do extensive to the rest of the civs,only rename that how “council system” selecting one type of politics in the UI in the same way how select a landmark to advance of age
the other things i will add is what you can advance with any landmark in any age (similarity how happen with the asian wonders in AoE 3)
You clic to advance of age and in the UI instead of two landmarks appearing, 5 or more appear


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This topic should be named why age of 3is better than 4. Age of 3 reflects all civs best than 4. Ottomans rocks at age of 3. Age of4 devs can do whatever they want.

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Cannonball collision physics! Im gonna say it again cause the impact is tremendous
 aoe3de is SUPERB in this
 the cannonballs blow ppl away LITERALLY like it should be. i cant understand how aoe4 BOMBARD doesn’t even do that


and dont deny this
 this detail is independent of the game it adds a lot of realness (that aoe4 lacks)

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I do not wish these features in the game.

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Age of 4 player base dont want any new ideas or age of 3 features. They will happy when you give them only Age of 2 features so age of 4 wont have any cool features. I am so happy about age of 3 de. Thanks again age of 3 devs.

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Those wonky physics are fun, but no they definitely do not blow ppl away “literally” like it should be. The physics in AoE3 are WAY over the top and not at all accurate.

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exagerada? por supuesto que lo es, pero lo hace mĂĄs dibertido y te hechas unas cuantas risas de solo verlo

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please no - all this points are the parts why people don’t like aoe3. keep it there please

aoe4 plays much smoother and not so clunky like aoe3 and thats good.

aoe3 is aoe3 and thats good. aoe4 is its own game

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See, I’m an AoE2 player, so batch training doesn’t appeal to me. However, when I think about it more, I think it could be a good idea for AoE4. The thing that changed my mind? You can’t wall with buildings. In AoE2, having more production buildings not only lets you create more units, it can help keep the enemy out. In AoE4, it just feels like they clutter up space a lot, so yeah, I might actually be ok with AoE4 gaining batch training if the devs wanted to do that.

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Uhh have you actually played both games? I’ve have played both game a lot and AoE 3 is way smoother. AoE 4 is much more clunky when moving armies around.

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AoE4 pathing, optimization and balance are better at the moment.

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it could work however as aoe online’s metropolis

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i played aoe 3 two days ago
 and no - aoe 3 movement is clunky as ever. the armies are slow and troops are clued to eachother. it don®t feel so direct like aoe2 or aoe4. not so clunky like empire earth, but to it feels like a game from 2006. thats ok, because its from this year.

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lets not pretend like aoe2 has perfect pathing, the old method could only do so much, same goes for aoe3 as well, aoe4 has objectively better base logic for pathing, just needs some execution polish

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AoE 4 balance is not any better then AoE 3. Plus the counter system is not very good

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Sobre Aoe3, tengo opiniones que han cambiado en el tiempo y divido en 4 periodos:

1.-INICIO.-
Al inicio, cuando saliĂł y siendo sincero, lo odie:

  • Los españoles(0/10), rebajados a ser una copia del age2, con unidades Ășnicas de la edad media, y sin ninguna explicaciĂłn de en que mejoraron tecnolĂłgicamente de 1500-1850. El juego daba a suponer jamĂĄs dejaron de usar rodelas o ballestas o perros incluso hasta la era napoleĂłnica, o que no desarrollaron unidades Ășnicas de armas de fuego mĂĄs tarde. Da hasta pena mejorar a los rodeleros a elite, para que luego se los bajen a Cañonasos en la edad Industrial.

  • Los españoles parte2, contexto histĂłrico.- Los pobres carecĂ­an de suficientes menciones en cartas sobre la conquista de los incas, mexicas y casi toda LatinoamĂ©rica, como que no hubieran obtenido nada de allĂ­ Âży el maĂ­z, la papa? Âżel oro y la plata? Âżlas tropas de reserva? Nada, solo una carta referenciando a usar llamas, y nada mĂĄs, que pobre, hasta en Age2 habĂ­a mĂĄs diferencias entre civilizaciones.

  • El sistema de cartas no evolucionaba bien: Si bien es entretenido y permite versatilidad en estrategias, no evolucionaba tanto como uno pensaba. Subir de nivel te daba como mĂĄximo premio “mĂĄs unidades” por carta, y mĂĄs usos de cartas, pero ÂżCuĂĄntas veces tengo que jugar con cada civ para ello? ÂżNo serĂ­a mejor que me lo den todo desde un inicio?

  • Limitaciones del Editor y creaciĂłn de escenarios- Faltaban edificios como campamentos madereros y mineros, postas mĂ©dicas, bailarines, los transeuntes de fiesta que salen en la Metropoli, Maravillas, Universidades. Los españoles fundaron varias universidades en Lima y en el Cuzco ÂżporquĂ© no existe el edificio, si se supone que hacemos colonias y virreinatos? Carencia de muchos atributos culturales y unidades GAIA o del editor impedĂ­an que se pudiera hacer escenarios personalizados retratando digamos
 Lima, Cuzco, cualquier ciudad del PerĂș, Ecuador, etc. No podĂ­a hacerse porque no habĂ­a llamas en el editor, ni biomas de LatinoamĂ©rica. Tampoco se podĂ­a recrear “batallas europeas histĂłricas” porque no habĂ­a mapas, animales, ni biomas de Europa suficientes para ello.

  • Eliminaron los bonos de las civ.- Ahora lo Ășnico diferente son las unidades Ășnicas, en muchos casos medievales, y algunas cartas
 poquĂ­simas, que los diferencian. Las mejores civ. trabajadas fueron TurquĂ­a y Rusia.

  • Eliminaron el arbol de tecnologĂ­a.- ÂżCĂłmo me iba a enterar que los Guerrilleros y Mosqueteros tenĂ­an un nombre distinto al evolucionar a elite en cada civ, si no existe el ĂĄrbol de tecnologĂ­as? Uno jugaba a ciegas el AoE3. Y las descripciones del panel de historia eran muy vagas.

  • Age of Estados Unidos.- La promociĂłn es que iban a trasladar el juego de Europa a America, para representar la era de las colonias y potencias europeas fue grande, pero al final fue “20 mapas del actual Estados Unidos”, y solo 2 de AmĂ©rica del sur (Amazonas, Caribe). Ni hablemos de los indĂ­genas, pura tribu norteamericana.

  • La campaña ficticia que no te deja entender como se juegan las civ.- Si bien la parte 1 y 2 de la campaña me pareciĂł entretenida, no permite aprender realmente como funciona el juego, en que Ă©poca real transcurre, y como se debe jugar las civilizaciones, ya que usa civ. de campaña que no vuelves a usar. Uno intenta jugar luego contra la IA, y descubre que los ingleses todavĂ­a tienen arqueros de tiro largo. De verdad, sigo sin entender que Ă©poca realmente querĂ­an reflejar.

  • Los incas de la campaña: Un dato de la campaña que me molesto fue la idea de que los Incas estaban perdidos en la selva, como si alguna vez hubieran desaparecido: ÂĄLos peruanos somos descendientes de los incas, pre-incas, africanos y españoles, caramba! Se que era ficciĂłn, y para algunos europeos el concepto de mestizaje es difĂ­cil de entender, pero por favor, existe, la misma razĂłn por la que sajones y normandos se mezclaron en el medievo de Inglaterra, pero nadie pregunta Âżhay una ciudad perdida de los Sajones?

  • Sobre Amelia Black: Sigo sin entender bien la parte de Amelia Black. Entiendo que dirigĂ­a una compañía de ferrocarriles, ÂżCĂłmo ***** obtuvo un ejercito de mercenarios inmenso capaz de pelear contra una mafia internacional a travĂ©s de varios paĂ­ses y hasta comprar cañones militares de asedio? ÂżCĂłmo es que incluso le dejaron desembarcar tan inmenso ejĂ©rcito en PerĂș para ayudar a BolĂ­var? ÂżCĂłmo es que tambiĂ©n le dejaron desembarcar a los Rusos en plena guerra de independencia, de hecho, de donde salieron? Se que es una campaña ficticia, pero hasta las ficciones histĂłricas deben mantener la “suspensiĂłn de la incredulidad” hasta un lĂ­mite, sino la narraciĂłn se siente confusa y aleatoria.

  • NĂșmero de jugadores limitado: Era 2005, y NO existĂ­a el concepto de ### ###### ###### “PC gamer”, Tarjeta grĂĄfica, etc. ÂĄPerĂł el juego estaba en 3d! (Age of empires 3D jeje) La mĂĄxima computadora en mi paĂ­s era una pentium 4, uno tenĂ­a que tener la Ășltima computadora para jugar el juego, lo que redujo el nĂșmero de jugadores a nivel global que podrĂ­an jugarlo o se animaran a comprarlo.

  • CausĂł que los desarrolladores se olvidaran del AoE2: No se si para promocionar el AoE3, o el hecho de que en esa Ă©poca no habĂ­a descarga virtual y no querĂ­an imprimir mĂĄs discos de AoE2, que cancelaron el multiplayer del AoE2, y dejaron de hacer expansiones del mismo.

2.-EXPANSIONES.- Con las expansiones mi opiniĂłn cambio un poco, ahora era mĂĄs positiva:

  • La campaña de WarChief (10/10): si bien incluĂ­a la familia Black, seguĂ­a eventos histĂłricos apreciables como la independencia de Estados Unidos y la guerra contra las tribus nativo-americanas por la codicia de la fiebre del oro. Ahora sabĂ­a mĂĄs del gameplay de las civ. nativas del juego, y en un contexto en el que pueda interesarme su historia.
  • La campaña asiĂĄtica (10/10): no se quedĂł atrĂĄs, incluso permite apreciar como eran los ejĂ©rcitos japoneses luego de la era sengoku, dinastia Ming y la guerra de independencia de la India antes de Ghandi. Mi parte favorita fue cuando usaron los elefantes para destruir la ciudad.
  • Los peruanos no salen de España (0/10 Buuuuuu): Eso me doliĂł, todo peruano sabe que el paĂ­s se independizo de España, no de Rusia ni Alemania. Se que las limitaciones tĂ©cnicas de la Ă©poca y cierta nociĂłn de balance les hizo hacer eso, pero por favor, ÂżDe Rusia? ÂżQuĂ© pintaban ellos en el Virreinato?

3.-WARS OF LIBERTY.- Sin embargo, unos años atrås, salió el mod Wars of Liberty, y corrigió TODO lo que odiaba del juego:

  • MĂĄs Civ, mĂĄs variedad, mĂĄs representaciĂłn histĂłrica: Ahora existĂ­an paĂ­ses independizados como civ, PerĂș, Chile, Argentina, Mexico. Las civ. Europeas tenĂ­an unidades mĂĄs acordes al periodo histĂłrico posterior al renacimiento y conquista, y ya no se quedaban en lo medieval.
  • MĂĄs representaciĂłn histĂłrica p2 unidades: Los nombres de las unidades mejoradas reflejaban fielmente regimientos de tropas reales e histĂłricos, y al menos cada civ tenĂ­a 2 o 3 unidades Ășnicas, ni hablemos de los mercenarios, que hicieron un trabajo increĂ­ble (Aikido en PerĂș, jajajaja, 10/10).
  • MĂĄs representaciĂłn histĂłrica p3: cartasCada civ tenĂ­a varias cartas que reflejaban realmente muchas cualidades de los paĂ­ses, en ves de solo. Huaripampeada peruana, o los regimientos militares que dan bono a las unidades, era lo mĂĄximo.

4.- AOEs 3: DEFINITIVE EDITION.-

  • Ahora que saliĂł el AoE3:Definitive Edition, y agregaron los incas, y nuevas cartas para que las civ se sientan “diferentes” culturalmente (En especial España, que esta mejor que nunca), ahora si me parece mejor jugarlo. La Ășnica contra es que no puedo pagar todos los DLC, quizĂĄs cuando salga un descuento me anime.

  • Y sobre elementos bonitos que deberĂ­an llevarse al 4, al menos de manera opcional (Como el modo regicida), Da para otro post bien largo, asĂ­ que aquĂ­ termino por hoy.

  • Para hacerlo corto: Modo: tesoros + el explorador: PodrĂ­an poner un “general” y tesoros, custodiados por bandidos, mercenarios bandidos, la campaña misma de Aoe4 mostrĂł que los franceses tenĂ­an a los Reutiers fastidiando por todos lados.

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— ENGLISH version in next post —

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i think aoe4 doesnt need anything from aoe3 game is fine the way it is specially that slow down when you get attack it definetly shouldnt be in the game.Only difference i like from aoe3 is the cannons they are very good and i like the ranged units have a melee attack thats all.I also like the flags on the building.

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About Aoe3, I have opinions that have changed over time and I divide them into 4 periods:

1.-THE BEGINNING.-
At the beginning, when the game came out, I have to be honest: “I hated it”:

  • The Spanish(0/10), downgraded to being a copy of age2, with unique units from the middle ages, and without any explanation of how they improved technologically from 1500-1850. The game implied that they never stopped using bucklers or crossbows or dogs even until the Napoleonic era, or that they didn’t develop unique units of firearms later. It’s even a shame to upgrade rodeleros to elite, so that they can later be lowered by cannonballs in the Industrial Age.

  • The Spaniards part 2, historical context.- This poor civ lacked enough mentions in cards about the conquest of the Incas, Mexica and almost all of Latin America, as if they hadn’t gotten anything from there, what about corn, potatoes? gold and silver? reserve troops? Not even the single-unit Conqueror was allowed, much less as an explorer.

  • The card system did not evolve well: Although it is entertaining and allows for versatility in strategies, it did not evolve as much as one thought. Leveling up gave you as a maximum prize “more units” per card, and more uses of cards, but how many times do I have to play with each civ for it? Wouldn’t it be better if they give me everything from the beginning?

  • Limitations of the Editor and creation of scenarios- Buildings such as logging and mining camps, medical posts, dancers, party passers-by who go out in the Metropoli, Wonders, Universities were missing. The Spaniards founded several universities in Lima and Cuzco. Why doesn’t the building exist, if we are supposed to build colonies and viceroyalties? Lack of many cultural attributes and GAIA or editor units prevented the possibility of making personalized scenarios portraying, let’s say
 Lima, Cuzco, any city in Peru, Ecuador, etc. It couldn’t be done because there were no llamas in the editor, and no Latin American biomes. You also couldn’t recreate “historic European battles” because there weren’t enough maps, animals, or biomes of Europe to do it.

  • They eliminated the civ bonuses.- Now the only thing different beetwen them is the unique units, (in many cases medievals units), and only very few cards differentiate them. The best civ. worked were Turkey and Russia. AoE2 has even better differences beetween civs, and AoE3 was supposed to be its sequel.

  • They eliminated the technology tree.- How was I going to find out that the Guerrillas and Musketeers had a different name when they evolved to elite in each civ, if there is no technology tree? One blindly played the AoE3. And the descriptions on the history panel were very vague.

  • Age of the United States.- The promotion is that they were going to transfer the game from Europe to America, to represent the era of the colonies and European powers, it was great, but in the end it was “20 maps of the current United States” , and only 2 from South America (Amazonas, Caribbean). Let’s not even talk about the indigenous, pure North American tribe.

  • The fictitious campaign that doesn’t let you understand how the civs are played.- Although part 1 and 2 of the campaign seemed entertaining to me, it doesn’t allow you to really learn how the game works, in what real time it takes place, and how civilizations should be played, since it uses civ. of campaign that you do not use again. One then tries to play against the AI, and discovers that the English still have longshot archers. Really, I still don’t understand what era they really wanted to reflect.

  • The Incas of the campaign: One fact of the campaign that bothered me was the idea that the Incas were lost in the jungle, as if they had once disappeared: Peruvians are descendants of the Incas, pre-Incas, Africans and Spaniards, gosh! I know it was fiction, and for some Europeans the concept of 
 oh, curius fact, the translation of the word “Mestizaje” DIDNT EXIST in English languaje, until 1863, with the word ##################### Now I understand why is very rare this concept to many europeans, but please, it exists, this is the same reason why Saxons and Normans mixed in the Middle Ages of England, but nobody asks is there a lost city of the Saxons?

  • On Amelia Black: I still don’t quite understand the part about Amelia Black. I understand that she ran a railway company, how ***** did she obtain a huge mercenary army capable of fighting an international mafia through several countries and even buying military siege cannons? How is it that she even let him land such a huge army in Peru to help BolĂ­var? How is it that she also let the Russians disembark during the war of independence, in fact, where did she come from? I know it’s a fictional campaign, but even historical fictions must maintain the “suspension of disbelief” to a limit, otherwise the narrative feels confused and random.

  • Limited number of players: It was 2005, and there was NO concept of ############# “PC gamer”, Graphics card, etc. But the game was in 3d! (Age of empires 3D hehe) The maximum computer in my country was a pentium 4, one had to have the latest computer to play the game, which reduced the number of players globally who could play it or be encouraged to buy it.

  • Caused developers to forget about AoE2: I don’t know if it was to promote AoE3, or the fact that at that time there was no virtual download and they didn’t want to make more AoE2 discs, which canceled AoE2 multiplayer, and stopped making expansions of it.

2.-EXPANSIONS.- With the expansions my opinion changed a bit, now it was more positive:

  • The WarChief campaign (10/10): Although it included the Black family, it followed significant historical events such as the independence of the United States and the war against the Native American tribes for the greed of the gold rush. Now I knew more about the civ gameplay. native to the game, and in a context where I might be interested in its history.

  • The Asian campaign (10/10): it was not far behind, it even allows us to appreciate what the Japanese armies were like after the Sengoku era, the Ming dynasty and the Indian war of independence before Gandhi. My favorite part was when they used the elephants to destroy the city.

  • Peruvians don’t leave Spain (0/10 Buuuuuu): That hurt me, every Peruvian knows that the country became independent from Spain, not from Russia or Germany. I know that the technical limitations of the time and a certain notion of balance made them do that, but please, from Russia? What did they paint in the Viceroyalty?

  • Asian an Warchieft civs dessign (9/10).- Beautifucl, glorius, with unique buildings for Assians or the tribal lider in the Iroquois (now Haudenosaunee), were very unique details that make the game better.

3.-WARS OF LIBERTY.- However, a few years ago, the Wars of Liberty mod came out, and it corrected EVERYTHING I hated about the vanilla game (not the expansions, that i love them):

  • More Civ, more variety, more historical representation: Now there were independent countries like civ, Peru, Chile, Argentina, Mexico. The civ. Europeans had units more in line with the historical period after the Renaissance and conquest, and they no longer stayed in the medieval.

  • More historical representation p2 units: The upgraded unit names accurately reflected real and historical troop regiments, and at least every civ had 2-3 unique units, not to mention the mercenaries, who did an amazing job ( Aikido in Peru, hahahaha, 10/10).

  • More historical representation p3: cardsEach civ had several cards that really reflected many qualities of the countries, rather than just. Peruvian Huaripampeada, or military regiments that give bonuses to units, was the best.

4.- AOEs 3: DEFINITIVE EDITION.-

  • Now that AoE3: Definitive Edition is out, and the Incas have been added, and new cards so that the civ feel “different” culturally (especially Spain, which is better than ever), now it seems better to play it. The only con is that I can’t pay for all the DLC, maybe when a discount comes out I’ll be encouraged.

  • And about nice elements that should be taken to 4, at least optionally (Like the regicide mode), It’s enough for another long post, so I’ll finish here for today.

  • To make it short: Mode: treasures + the scout: They could put a “general” and treasures, guarded by bandits, bandit mercenaries or bears. The Aoe4 campaign itself showed that the French had the Reutiers bugging from all sides. It can be optional, as Regicide Mode, and act as a Mod.

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Agree with everything except home city and heroes.