Mesoamerican Mounted Units

Hi there, i’m an Historian, i really like this game and since history is my work i want to ask all of you if i’m the only one who feels like this about mesoamerican civ.
Mesoamerican Civ have acces to mounted units by converting a stable, i feel this is amazing but i don’t think is enough. For example is very difficoult to counter gunpowder units with incas , maya and aztecs, but even the weak xholotl warrior can turn the table tank to the 100 hit points. now to the core of the apple. Mesoamerican people endured most than more poeple imagine, incas fough for 40 years, aztecs for more or less 5 years and maya for more than hundred . so in this time they of course aquired horses by buying them in a sort of " black market". so why don’t make a techology in the imperial age that make them build stable? simple as that you can balance the civ. What you guys think?


It’s not necessary.

All three have above average Skirms, which counter Hand Cannons, Eagles would do ok against Bombard Cannons. Missing armor and all the other upgrades means that cavalry will basically never be viable, they take too much damage, and die too fast.


Why would you want to take out the uniqueness of the meso civis?

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i’m surely not a pro player but when it comes to fight against turks or hindustanis, all you mentioned is not enough, 60 jannissar will shred everything that is not mounted. maybe i play only against people who spam gunpowder but i can assure that also bohemians and spanish are not easy to counter. but maybe i’m the one who is not good enough

My point is that in history they got horses, so this uniqueness is not right. and also is unbalanced when it comes to fight against , turks, spanish, hindustanis and bohemians. but as i stated before, maybe i’m just bad

Maybe a type of mounted archer inspired by Plains Native horsemen would be a good regional unit for Meso civs once they convert a stable?

They’ll shred most things though, including cavalry if they can land hits. The thing about the Meso civs is that they are very gold reliant, and can definitely fall off lategame, particularly Aztecs. Adding a weak-ish cav unit definitely isn’t going to fix that. And it’s not even something that should necessarily be fixed.

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Then dont pretend to understand the issues these civs dont actually have Vs gunpowder.

I think your idea is fine and certainly also historically researched. The core issue of the older Age of Empires games is that all civilizations have too many basic units like swordsmen, pikemen and archers. I would be in favor of reducing these in every civilization and occupying them with special units. I think your suggestion for the mesocivs to acquire horses or to provide battle tested riders from the imperial era onwards is a good approach that you can also expand to other civilizations so that the game himself becomes more realistic, more balanced and thus better. Thank you for that good input.

the difference between you and the other inseder that replyed to this discussion is enormous, you are unpolite and your answer literally add notthing to the discussion, next time please keep your opinion for yourself

Existing American civs are fine in terms of balance, even erring on the stronger side in standard settings. There’s no need to rework them to give further relevance to an easter egg unit, or undermine the role of the eagle warrior, which is a well-balanced cav substitute with some interesting tradeoffs.

If you want to create a scenario depicting native cavalry usage, or propose a new American civ that has meaningful and historically inspired access to cavalry, I can respect that. I initially gave such a bonus to my Purépecha civ on the basis of their peaceful reception of the Spanish, as well as a legend of a princess that captured horses and led a revolt (although this is not well attested by primary sources and was likely embellished and/or conflated with the Mixtón War). But this would be a good bonus for a Mapuche or Tlaxcalan civ, or for various historical scenarios, such as the Chichimeca wars or the Inca escape to Vilcabamba.

Then don’t pretend this game exist only for pro player. A game pourpouse is to have fun. Even if you are not a pro gamer. I’m not suggesting something that will change the meta. You guys have to pick a side, pro player always say that xolotl ##### ### also say that introducing them will be broken

I don’t think Meso’s not having cav hinders the fun on lower levels of play.
Part of the fun is figuring out and playing around the certain limitations of particular civs.
If you don’t want that turn on “full tech tree”

Besides that I think the community is for the most part in agreement that balance changes shouldn’t go against the core design philosophy/identity of a civ and in case of the meso civs their basic idea was to design viable civs around the absense of horses and gunpowder in the tech tree. So whatever balance changes would be applied, giving them either horses or gunpowder is a no go.

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