In that case I guess there is no point for any non-siege land military exist except scout line and maybe CA.
This one is okay. You may need to create one in the future to differentiate War ele from other ele.
Nah. Just add positive armor to the elephant armor on non war elephants. Just like some units have negative value on cav archer armor
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That might block bonus damage from other units though like Genoese xbow and Kamayuk.
Again better to get new armor class as they will take bonus damage from infantry UU as well (and 1 more damage from spear line 11). Is that also your intention?
First of all id givd them eagle armor at likeâŠ+4. That means only ls, ths and champ do bonus damags to them.
2 Likes
Both Heavy and Light Cav is very good against 45f 35g Champion. Scorpion and onager is also good.
Knight-line is still good. Better at raiding and melee, it has mobility and counter siege units. May someone ask that Arbalest become bad. Arbalest kill still a lot of units, Camels, pikes, cavalry (Cavalier, Cataphract, Leitis, Konnik etc., equal fight though) except 3 PA ones (Paladin, Keshik, Tarkan, Elephants).
thatâs 30 elite skirms and arbs and a castle shooting at a few samurai (canât even tell if they are elite). how is this even remotely relevant to this discussion?
2 Likes
Scorpions wont be that good, and light cav and hesvy cav are easily countered by mixing in some pikes.
But heres rhe probldm with your plan.
I hit castle age and start flooding militia line against an archer civ with some pikes mixed in. What you able to do? You donât have the eco for archers and light cav. And your light cav is gonna need a stable, and upgrades.
And thats not even counting massing up militia otw up to feudal and researching man at arms and mixing in some spears and laughing at you
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He literallt just proposed making a men at arms opener completely bustedâŠ
Imagine this with Japanese Light Cav instead of Samurai. Light Cav (it lacks last armor upgrade btw) could give a lot of hit to BBC and even maybe kill one of them. Samurai on the other hand canât chase siege, 1.0 speed even too slow. The performance of the Samurai in this game drove me crazy. They were of no use against archer+ BBC.
Is that fast Castle Age Knights is stronger than this? Knight raid damage your eco, Pikeman upgrade is expensive and you need to wait 7-8 Pike to engage otherwise all your pike die without killing anything. Cheapest approach is Monk but Monk created too slow (60 seconds per Monk). Until this time, Knight possibly kill too much villagers which force resign.
Longsword moves slow, not good at killing villagers, best try is killing TC which needs 15 Longsword which is countered by 7 Knight or 8 new Light Cav. I already want the Champion-line to be strong and useful. However, Champion wonât be better than Knight even with this change.
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umm, yes. because archer (+BBC) are the counter units to samurai. samurai are good against infantry, with a bonus against unique units. why should they counter arbs?
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Samurai doesnât get bonus damage from Arbalest, Samuraiâs hp and armor isnât worst and Samurai has one of highest damage output in the game but mobility ruins everything. Aztecs Champion isnât useful too. High attack doesnât fit slow and fragile unit.
there are loads of counters which dont rely on bonus damage. whatâs you point?
originally you were talking about giving bonus against trash to militia line, and now you are saying samurai need more pierce armour?
what do you actually propose? why do you want it?
3 Likes
So an archer civ is gonna fast castle knights against an infantry civ?
What if he doesnt know what my plan is? Still gonna fast castle knights?
What if hes an archer civ with bad knights, or without knights?
If i neex 7 to 8 pikes hes got 3 to 4 knights if not more anf ive already been flooding his base with longswords longer the entiee time.
They dont need to kill villagers. Kill production. Idle woodlines. Destroy tcs. That stops them in tracks.
7 or 8 knights? My atmy is cheap and disposable and faster to produce. Your dead.
N2m i can just start flooding a mix of spears and militia into your base the moment i hit feudal and your not gonna be able to stop it.
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just to remind people of the dynamic. champs dont counter skirms. they dont die easily to skirms, but its not the same as countering them.
champs hardly counter hussar line as well (primarily due to speed) but also due to raw stats/reinforcement rates/choosing fights
leaving ONLY the halb line. so champs counter halb line, and kill buildings. at a huge cost, both logistically and tactically. a cost im simply tired of explaining repeatedly, when its so glaringly obvious.
8 Likes
champions have a speed of 0.99, so they are faster than skirms (as are samurai btw) and skirmishers deal 2 damage to them at one of the lowest rates of fire with minimum range. even hulâche skirms are useless against them
so what change are you actually proposing?
what if Longswordsman line gain +2 bonus attack vs archers and Cavalry? Still dies vs archers and Kts (and Similar UUs) but would be better against trash.
Because realistically you just buffed them against all forms of cavalry. Just add eagle armor to all trash units.
5 Likes
Because I always need to take it to the next level. What if they renamed eagle class to something like âlight unitâ(insert ethnically appropriate word, like âcare Bearâ)
Thereâs a bit of irony that pikes will have bonus damage Vs themselves though (which could obviously be negated by inherent bonus armour)
It would also by default make Sicilian trash, better
I wouldnât mind an attack bonus against Light Cav, whatever armour class shenanigans it might entail, cause it would really make Champs the sort of trash killer people make them out to be, since right now Hussars can not only ignore the fight straight up but win it with even a pretty modest eco advantage (provided fully upgraded Hussars and the Champ player doesnât mix pikes/halbs, anyway). The other MUs are fine, they obviously wipe the floor with halbs and skirms can be annoying but unless very microâd theyâre not that threatening to a champ with upgrades.
They do not need bonus dmg against trash, just a little more hp or armor
Militia could be the same
MAA could go to 50hp and 0/1 armor
It would make them 11% more resistant to scouts and 13% to archers
LS keeps the 65hp with 1/1 armor
15% better against knights, 13% better against xbows
2HS goes up to 70hp 2/1 armor
17% better against cavalier, 17% better agains arbs, dies in 4 shots against HC
CH goes up to 80hp 2/1 armor
15% better against cavalier, 17% better against paladin, 15% better against arbs, dies in 4 shots against HC
I think a 15%ish buff to the whole militia line will make them a lot more viable in the meta and of course if some civs would be too OP with this changes you can simply remove the CH
3 Likes