What do they support actually? I don’t see any situation that they support other units.
Which situation they are useful in? I don’t know really.
Militia-line is also rare unit in late game. Hussar, Halb, Skirmisher and Archers are more common in late game. It is used in late Dark Age and early Feudal because it is only unit can be created in this stage of the game.
Viable means useful in particular situations in my mind. What do you understand from Viable I am curious.
Not for all civs that’s for sure. Some new techs in barracks similar to Supplies can be introduced at best.
Upgrade cost and more importantly time will most definitely make them viable.
This.
I want to see Light Cav as much as xbow and knight. Not just for sniping monk and siege (which knight actually does more often). Now should we buff LC too?
they are a great trash buster - go watch Vinchesters win against Viper on Arena in T90 Titans league. he used a Milita switch to support his cav archer + hussar + siege to bust through all the trash viper had, allowing him to push through damage.
best opener in the game for one? when gold is running out they have proven time and time again to be effective.
I see them used a bit in the late game against trash heavy compositions.
and they are that - just because you don’t see them get to that situation often means nothing. we literally just had 5 games alone in T90 titans league where they saw use in the late game . This is AT THE PRO LEVEL mind you. if that doesn’t prove they are Viable to you, NOTHING Will because you’re too biased to see what is in front of you.
point blank - Militia have times and uses where they are very much a good option.
should they be a little cheaper to tech too? i’m fine with that. should they have some bonus against the scout line (and possibly other trash units). maybe. i would be okay with that too.
but they are not going to be a unit you see as often as other units.
Militia-line doesn’t counter Skirmisher and Hussar. Skirmisher can make hit-run because Champion is slow. Hussar easily counter Skirmisher but Champion can’t. In Hussar vs Champion, Hussar player can engage whatever player want, Hussar can kill Champion when Hussars has more numbers. As a result, Champion counter only Halberdier and buildings.
You are talking about militia rush, right. MAA rush is best opener, yes, because there is no unit to create in Dark Age and when players build archery range and stables, MAA disappears because archer and Scout is better than MAA.
I am curious how do they used? Can I share link of the videos to me. I watched Titans League, Militia-line is used very rarely in this tournament as well like 20% of the games at most.
YOu need A LOT of skirmishers for this to be true (35 minimum, with FULL ATTACK UPGRADES MIND YOU), and those skirmishers can still only fire once every 3 seconds, and they have minimum range and the champs move faster with squires.
so please - show me this game where mass skirm beats champs. because i can show you a game where champs shred thorugh mass halb + skirm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz4gFRc0SaQ go to game 5. watch as TURKISH champs beat Bohemian Trash.
so hussar can beat champ with greater numbers? not only are hussar more expensive, but hussar also train much slower. so congrats. you give all the advantages to hussar in the situation where they win. but hey if you look at my earlier comments, you’ll see I’m all for giving Champs bonus damage against the hussar line.
I’d say a good +4 for THS/Champ would be great.
so according to you they were used in 20% of the games AT THE PRO LEVEL, IN A TOURNAMENT. and that’s NOT VIABLE?
what exactly is your standard of viable then? because to me that seems like it’s contrary to your recent claim of
because if they were useful in roughly 20% of games, I’d say they were useful in particular situations.
look at the gold cost. champions cost hardly any gold, they are not meant to compete with gold units during castle age and early imp
even so militia line gets used to counter trash and eagles, which is what they are for
I’m ok with adding some bonus vs hussar line (or maybe even all cav) to THS and Champion, but everything else seems like it’s changing the essence of the unit
I didn’t say Skirmisher counter Champion, I said Champion doesn’t counter Skirmisher due to speed. Skirmisher give very low damage to Champion because Skirmisher damage output is low. However, Skirmisher doesn’t die to Champion and kill 3-4 Champions if you micro Skirmishers. Hussars is real counter unit of Skirmisher, Champion isn’t
I watched this game but I don’t remember the result. I am watching again due to you sharing. Viper lost 10 Houfnice to Hussars so far because he didn’t place Halberdier in front of Houfnice, if Viper will lose this game, he will lose due to these waste of Houfnice. FU Turks Champion didn’t do that much. By the way, as I said, in this game, champions were only used for Halberdlers.
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hussar may be a better counter to skirmisher then champ, but champ is a better catch all answer to trash in general.
if my opponent is coming at me with skirms + pikes, or skirms + hussar, or hussar + pike, champs is a better answer then most options.
funny - i watched those champs shred through both. the hussars were focused on the houfnice, but only because the champs were able to take so much attention on them. including the skirms attention.
If opponent add 6 HC or 2 Onager, Hussar again become better answer than Champion.
Villese stopped Champion production and produced full Hussar, Cav Archer and this combo beat Viper. Champion performed poorly in this match up again.
yeah, but if your opponent can afford all that, my guess is you can afford more then just pure champ.
false. the champs were what let him get the damage in that he needed to further his push. keep in mind, at the time that he did the champ switch, his hussar + cav archer + bbc comp was bleeding bbc and not getting the job done at all. Viper had upwards of 5-6 Houfnice and a treb even.
Afterwords viper had to sell hordes of resources just to replenish have even 1-2 houfnice and trickle them in and he never recovered.
were they game ending damage? NO. but they were game changing damage.
but again - the problem here is your claims contradict eachother.
you want viable (useful in particular situations) and then say they were used in roughly 20% of games at the pro level, in a tournament. the fact that pros are making them roughly 20% of the time, would suggest that they are in fact useful in particular situations.
so which is it abled? do you want them VIABLE (which they are, just not in all stages of the game), or what do you want them to be?
When Villese stopped Champion production, game was equal.Then Villese produced only Hussar&Cav Archer in the last 10-15 minutes of the game, and this combo broke Viper. I watched it right now. Champion didn’t do much.
I said Longsword and Champion is used in Titans Leage 20% of the games at most. In other tournaments, I don’t know LS and Champion exceed usage ratio of 10%.
Before the champ push viper had 5 to 6 houfnice and was actually picking off bbc. After he never recovered. Nice try though.
10% would still mean they are seeing use and needed though. And its seeing more and more use as time goes on. Im seeing more use now then i did a year and a half ago. You want more use? Cheaper to tech too will give you that.
This is a good idea, if we can tolerate how nonsensical it will be for new players. One of the core problems with the game right now is that Hussar just kill everything, if Champs actually want to be useful, having more efficacy against the Hussar line would be the first change I would make.
Why not give them bonus damage instead of re-classing the unit? It might make more sense to classify eagles as “scouting unit” armor class than the other way around.
If you’re getting the same result, anyway.
I’ve literally proposed this exact thing in the past. obviously you’re not going to just give them eagle armor and call it a day. because eagle armor on a unit not called eagle would be…dumb.
so rename it scout armor.
Militia line and slow, susceptible to arrow fire, hidden behind too many upgrades. So, to start with I propose a speed buff, PA buff and replacing LS with 2HS along with reducing champion cost. Maybe the new 2HS might require a small buff (kinda average of lod 2HS and LS). We start off here and depending on how it plays out we can add some cav bonus damage along with PA and Speed buffs if required.
Correct me if i’m wrong, historically foot soldiers had shields and were able to absorb arrow fire to a extent right? So, I think it makes sense both historically and game balance wise to buff the militia line.
Why are soo many proposals to buff units beyond its original design? 11
In current meta and all the new stuff that had been added since the original design, militia need to be redesigned.
Agree 100%. Champions were totally useless and the hussar hca combo eventually broke the viper.
Not to mention we only saw champions bc turks don’t have elite skirms, because hussar + skirms would be way better than champions to attack close to a castle
I proponed earlier in this thread 10hp and 1 MA to make a 15% buff to champions