Minor Economic bonus for Magyar?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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hi all! i always struggle to understand why the magyars has no real economic bonus, unlike pretty much any other civ.

Other civs that have unit discount either have it wider and stronger (like berbers) or have something else in addition (like bizantines)

i guess the free blacksmith attack upgrade are an indirect bonus, but they are not as good as buff as the defense one, and are locking you into a very specific tactic to take advanatge of it (feudal rush with scout, or M@A at best). Either way, if you rush with infantry, you forgo your scout bonus, and if you rush with scout, you are predictable as heck, while strong

i personally don’t think magyars are bad, on the contrary, but i do believe there is room for improvement especially in the civ bonuses that could be very much improved. Looking at berbers sound like a no brainer over magyars for cavalry, for example, while also having a strong eco bonus, giving you more resources that you can spend how you like, instead of bonded with specific tech for free

my idea is to give magyar a new civ bonus to sinergize with their wolf bonuses, that can be a small economical advantage with their flavour of nomad/raiders/savage. here some proposition to break ice:

-herdables and huntables decade slower. magyars vill are fierce enough to kill a wolf bare hands, i guess they can take a bit of rotten meat

  • Villagers can collect food from wolves when killing them directly on you stock (example, vill kill a wolf, instantly X food appear on your food stock) sinergyze with their wolf bonus

-Magyars are nomads, so their houses are special (like mongols and huns) you can build house for half the price and half the time, but they have half HP

-on the same topic of houses, magyar starts the game with 2 houses, equivalent to a 50 food bonus and a bit of food in work time

-to sinergize with wolf bonus and forward villagers, a bonus could buff Outpost. Outpost drop their stone bonus, or convert it into wood, costing only wood, and could have either more HP, less build time, or maybe villager could drop huntable/herdables food at the outpost like is a mill, making it an economic building of sort. would make for a cool reason to send a villager forward and hunt

these are just proposition because i think magyars could use a limited economical boost. On the other hand, since their drop point is the castle age, a bonus could be specifically targetted to that moment, but i tried to keep in touch with the wolf bonus since atm it seems very weird to me and rarely useful, and could be expanded and doubled down on

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I like that magyars have no eco bonus at all. Do we want 39 civs all with different “almost equal” eco bonusses?
If anything the results and picks of magyars in tournaments only show that the eco bonusses of the top civs are just too strong in comparison and should be tuned down a bit.

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They had, once upon a time…

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After removing the tech, developers could have made Magyars start with a free dog that only scout

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magyar are in a good spot. why do you want to change them?

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Wouldn’t all of this make their pretty strong scout rush a lot stronger?

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I don’t think they need an eco bonus either. It is fine to have civs specialized toward military.

  • maa: free +1 attack
  • scouts: free +1 attack, -15% cost
  • archers: +2 LOS

They are also the main civ that feels confortable as pocket and flank late game without unit transition, due to having FU paladin and FU arbalests (alternative being chinese/italians/portuguese, plus huns/spanish/cumans/lituanians if we consider a transition to cav archers).

Even though the archer bonus is not in resources, it is still a very nive to have, and there is no problem going to what is not your main unit, just like Franks can play archers into xbows and britons can go scouts and knight if the situation requires it (both are commonly played by pros).

If you still want to add, you have to give up either the free melee attack or the scouts discount. I know that Empires Wars is not the most popular game mod, but Magyars are the best civ in this setting and it already banned or first picked in every RBW tournament.

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First nerf Franks then see Magyars being more picked.

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The only one I like is the herdables and huntables dont decay which tbh its a pretty decent bonus. Maybe thats not enough but I think it would be a decent start

Eh. I just think Magyars arent very well designed honestly. I would argue that theres actually well designed civs without an eco and Magyars just arent one of those.

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The suggestion with non rotting herdables for magyars was often made before

I once propsed in a thread, that magyars an chinese shouly just swap their team bonus, an many in the thread liked the idea.

Long thincs cut short, ideas are there but nothing gets implemented.

Another interesting option would be to give magyars free fletching as a team bonus. They would be completely unprdictable in 1v1 feudal and give the whole team a great starting boost in teamgames (but maybe even too mush).

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I find Magyars to be one of the more versatile openings (starting in Feudal). As you mentioned, the free Forging is nice for Scouts and MAA, and the Scout discount is helpful, but predictable. The fact that the opponent expects scouts makes archers a great option. Most civs cannot match Magyar scouts head to head, so they often make a few spears. This is a great opportunity to sneak an archery range, and Magyar archers get a bonus to line of sight. Fletching is often useful long term because Magyars can transition into the best Cavalry Archers in Imperial, or utilize their fully upgraded Arbalesters or Elite Skirmishers.

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free fletching would be such a big bonus. you could go up one/two vils earlier and still get archers with fletching. saving wood cost of blacksmith+time to build blacksmith+cost of fletching+time to get fletching is such a huge amount of savings

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If they switch bonuses with a civ the more fitting option would be Britons. Then after that you can have Chinese swap TB with the Incas

But tbh even with a better TB I think they still need a bit more since honestly Magyars are just a bit boring for most of the game

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The reason why I proposed to swap teambonus with china is the problem, that magyars are difficult to balance. An eco bonus that kicks in during dark age or early feudal would make their scout rush insane. A slow but impactfull bonus like slavs farming would boost lategame, where magyars are extremely strong anyway. In fact most civs are on a timer, when theiy fight magyars. An eco bonus for magyars would just fit balance wise, if it kicks in in late feudal or early castle, like later reseed with chineese team bonus.

An imteresting mechanic might also be a discount on farm reseeds, like teutons but without the discount at first build. Strong impact in early castle age, but of little matter once imperial is reached and ecos are strong.

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why the magyars has no real economic bonus, unlike pretty much any other civ

Right.
Byzantines, Spanish, Portuguese, Bulgarians, and you can easily include: Incas, Ethiopians, Goths, Malians.

Basically another post that asks to fix one civ into a very plain scheme of how civ design should be according to his view, you cant handle the harsh fact that Magyars have the absolute BEST late game in the game having FU Arbs, FU Paladins, and over the top CA+ Magyar Huszar. Officially the best civ in the game militaristically, no civ can match up with these options, the only thing they’re missing is BBC.

Relax please, it’s okay for some civs to lack eco bonus, when it’s well implemented.

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Non decaying herdables still wont help your scout rush arruving sooner. The problem with that bomus is that it just doesnt fit Magyars

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If you insist on a Magyar Change, just swap UTs (Corvinian Army to Imperial and Recurve Bow to Castle Age) and extend the scout discount to military units (military units cost 15% less food) and if people still insist is broken, I present you Mayans archer discount 11. (Corvinian Army then turns the gold cost into food, so Magyar huszars are just 3 food cheaper than now).
Is important to keep Magyars without eco bonuses as such broad tech tree could make them with some eco bonus OP.

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Magyars are already a good and balanced civs. Adding an economic bonus to them would only make them OP. I think they are fine as they are. They are one of my favourite civs.

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I want to like that change but Magyars are not in a bad position I might be willing to consider that if the discount was just for calvary. Also, Mayans? You are using Mayans as an example of how unit discounts aren’t broken. Try Portuguese, Byzantines, or Koreans

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what i proposed are fairly minor bonuses, that sinergize with the weird wolf thing. also, if a civ is not bad this does not mean it could not be made better to represent its identity. magyars are fairly average atm according to winrate, they could be better, just as many other civs of course, but i focused on magyars because they are one of the few (maybe the only?) civ with just 3 bonuses, with one being very very niche and limited to almost be trivial

they are not as interesting as they could be, and do not feel unique to me. except for their good scout rush, but that’s pretty predictable