[Minor Natives topic] Post here your ideas for every single minor natives so the devs can look at

For South America, native units of cavalry and firearms are needed.

This, and the rank of 18 of the Cree must return.

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TUPI
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TUPI: Tupi | Age of Empires Series Wiki | Fandom

Overview

Overall a very good minor civilization. In my opinion they just need more improvements.

NEW TECHS

  • Tupi Guarana Seeds (400f, 400c)​: Consuming guarana will improve the HP and damage of all your units.
    New Effect: All units get +5% hit points and attack.
    Why:​ I don’t like proposing “dry” HP and damage buffs, but I feel the lore matches the effect. It applies to land and water units. It’s like Team Shivaji’s tactics
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Lore: Folklore: The Tupi-Guarani mythology tells a story of a young boy graced by the great god Tupan but killed by an evil deity. Their parents, saddened by his death, buried his eyes on a fertile land (through a sign of Tupan) and from that place the Guarana plant grew, providing fruits like the eyes of the young lad. The Legend of Guaraná
Herbology: As a dietary supplement or herb, guaraná seed (native to the Amazon basin and especially common in Brazil) is an effective stimulant: it contains about twice the concentration of caffeine found in coffee beans. Guarana - wikipedia

  • River Fishing (250w, 250c)​: The Tupi and other tribes fish.
    New Effect: Boats gather yield rate +20% (aka: fish last 20% longer). Delivers 2 Canoes and canoes fish 10% faster.
    Why:​ Fishing was an important part of Tupi culture, specially to the ones nearby Amazon River. I didn’t add anything regarding farming because it is too common.
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Lore: Agriculture, hunting, fishing and gathering of fruits were also based on Indian traditions". Tupi people - wikipedia

  • Urucum Body Painting Ceremony (250f, 250c)​: The Pajés start a ceremony with body painting to strength your units.
    New Effect: Delivers 1 pajé (Medicine man). Heroes and units that already regenerate HP (before this tech) do it faster when idle.
    Economic units can regenerate life points now but only when idle (2HP/s).
    Native warriors gain +10% damage.

    Why:​ I would like to keep giving original or unique effects. This one takes a bit of each characteristics of body painting. Only a few units have auto healing (heroes, Spahi and a few others) so this tech is pretty cheap.

Lore: It is also known as achiote but it may also be referred by its original Tupi name uruku , urucu or urucum (“red color”), which is also used for the body paint prepared from its seeds.Urucum - wikipedia
Body painting has several meanings: rites of passage, group or individual protection, wedding ceremonies, mourning or healing ceremonies, or the warrior or religious function
; Body painting- arte indigena
Article - Indian paintings: ethnicity & identity- in portuguese

  • Tupi Black Forest Echoes (200w, 200c)​: Inside the deep forest they live in, the Tupi natives know the paths and terrain.
    New Effect: Reveals the line of sight of the enemy for 12. When they detect a tree: Pets, Explorers, settlers and archers move 10% faster and buildings have +10% hitpoints.
    Why:​ This one is more based on the richness and extension of Amazon back in the 16th century and the fact Tupi tribes dominated South America. It benefits the ones who would “explore” the forests as well as archers and pets. It’s the “cousin” of Youruba Herbalism.

Lore: “As you walk through the rainforest, you may be surprised by how dark it is. Because of the dense canopy of leaves and tree branches above, only a tiny amount of light actually reaches the forest floor. As a consequence, plant growth on the forest floor in undisturbed rainforest is often limited. The landscape is instead dominated by large tree trunks.” Visiting the Amazon Rainforest

REWORKED TECHS

  • Tupi Poison Arrow Frogs (Archers get +10% attack):
    Rework: Archers get +15% ranged attack. Tupi Blackwood Archer’s arrows do poison damage.
    Why: Why not?

* Tupi Animal Lore (Town Centers and heroes can train Buttercup the Pet Cougars):
Rework: Also: Pets have +10% Attack and HP
Why: There is not a single technology other than this one that is applied to pets. I know they are gimmick but whatever.

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On maps where whales don’t make sense, there should be infinite sources of fish. It could be that they yield -10% than ordinary fishing so that initially limited fishing is prioritized. It would be a good approach to rework the map of the Amazon.

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Even AOE2 had that fish trap that was virtually a infinite source of fishing. I don’t know AOE3 never had a such a thing

Zen Temple

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Good technologies, but I think very expensive.

Current improvements:

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Meritocracy: Meritocracy is a technology in Age of Empires III: The Asian Dynasties that can be researched at a Trading Post built on a Zen Temple settlement. Once researched, it reduces the cost of unit upgrades by 20%.

If you’ve already invested wood in the TP, I think you’ve already made a good investment, so making it cheaper would improve its biability. It will cost -100 of each resource (From 300 gold and food, it will cost 200 of each)

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Meditation: Meditation is a technology in Age of Empires III: The Asian Dynasties that can be researched at a Trading Post built on a Zen Temple settlement. As soon as it is researched, the player will receive 1,000 XP.

The effects scale according to the age you are.

1000 xp in age II
1500 xp in age III
2000 xp in age IV
3000 xp in age V

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Master Lessons: Master Lessons is a technology in Age of Empires III: The Asian Dynasties that can be researched at a Trading Post built on a Zen Temple settlement. Once researched, it increases the attack of melee infantry by 10%.

In addition to this, it now improves Sohei Warriors by 15%. I think this would be the most attractive aria to use.

New improvements:

Kaihōgyō: This demanding test elevates your warrior monks to a new level.

Causes the speed of Sohei warriors to increase by 15% and each warrior generates a slight thread of experience (0.5 xp / s), but they train slower by -20% and the experience reward for the enemy for killing them increases 30%.

“The kaihōgyō (回 峰 行) (“circling the mountain”) is an ascetic practice performed by Tendai Buddhist monks. The practice involves walking a route on Mount Hiei (the location of the Tendai school headquarters), the longest of which takes 1000 days to complete; all the while offering prayers at halls, shrines and other sacred places.”

Negoro-shū Sects: These sect have warrior monks with good skills in firearms.

Unlock a powerful short-range musketeer, but with melee tolerance and projectile tolerance. With ranged bonuses against heavy infantry and shock cavalry and infantry. Also makes firearm infantry train 5% faster.

“The Negoro-shū (根来衆) were an order of warrior monks based in Negoro-ji temple, in Japan’s Kii Province. They were famous for their skill with firearms, as well as with more traditional monk weapons like the naginata. Negoro-ji, along with many other warrior monasteries, came under siege at the end of the 16th century; in 1585, the temple was burned to the ground by the forces of Toyotomi Hideyoshi”.

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The yamabushi and it belong to the Tendai, not the Zen.
Negoro-shū belong to the Shingon, not the Zen too.
Btw, the sohei archers basing on the ikko-ikki belong to the Jōdo Shinshū, still not the Zen.

As long as this temple is Zen Temple, they should not appear here.

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You can check my similar ideas below.
I put them at Monastery, while I don’t define the school and sect of Monastery so they are reasonablly allowed at there.
The Negoro-shu could be presented by the Saika-shu (雑賀眾), which were similar and also the famous mercenary group with firearms. Since the Teppo Ashigaru (鉄砲足軽), the Ashigaru Musketeers which are renamed to a more accurate term in my version, are already good ranged heavy infantry, so I think the another Japanese firearm forces like the Saika-shu should be skirmisher-like mercenaries.

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For the map of ceylon why not add the sinhalese as the natives? The lascarins would be the unit coming out of the tp.

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TAD natives are not exactly “natives” but I don’t much about the sinhalese people.

Following the tradition that the Asian semi-civs should better be a kind of religion, I would like to introduce the Theravada Temple.

It can reasonable replace the Zen in the South and Southeast Asia. The Theravada Buddhism began to establish itself in Sri Lanka from the 3rd century BCE onwards. From Sri Lanka, the Theravāda tradition subsequently spread to the rest of Southeast Asia. Besides, the Zen Temple should not get out of Japan.

The unit of Theravada Temple can be the Flail Elephants which were said to have been a cavalry and siege unit fielded with the early armies of Sri Lanka. Just remove them from the Indians and adjust them to put them into the TP. The Indians could get Mysorean Rocket as the second castle units.

On the other hand, Lascarins can be introduced as mercenaries. Their situation is similar to the Zouave, who were natives recruited by the Europeans and serving as the colonial soldiers.
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My suggestion for the Asian semi-civs.

Flail elephants are a fantasy unit and no one used elephants like that after the 15th century.
I guess a temple or religious building would work too.not sure if there are any unique monks in theravadic tradition.

The module of Flail Elephant is already there. Reusing the asset is one of the wise solutions.

The units of the religious sites do not necessary to be a monk-related unit though, such like Tiger Claws, War Elephants.

Btw, the Hui people (回族) would be reasonable to replace Sufi Mosque in some maps where should be no elephant, like the Mongolia.

Look for something related to the Sohei warriors, but I don’t know if it disassociates itself from religious doctrine. They seem to be linked, but I don’t know exactly how.

At least it could be used for future DLC.

Natives need to be on multiple maps to be viable so Tamils would be a better fit for Ceylon since they would also make sense for southern India and Malaysia and could reasonably appear in several other southeast Asia regions.

You mean sohei monks?

I basically learned they aligned themselves with the certain lords when convenient to defend themselves, maintain their influence or survive.
It was basically a political alliance but extremely risky because the temple would be perceived as enemy and wiped out if another Warlord won the wars

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So can my proposal make sense? XD

But Sufi are on maps where Islam is represented. The temples and units have little to do with precise history (like Vanilla, Warchiefs and African Royals), they are there to generically represent factions.

Each religious site represents a big faction (religious/cultural/geographical/people): that’s why we have five religions: Islam, Sikh, Chinese/japanese Buddhism, Hindu and Catholicism.

Removing Sufi means we remove Islam. :neutral_face:
That’s why we have so many Sufi and Jesuit sites on the maps: they are there to represent Arabs/Europeans - Muslim/Catholics.

The only thing they have in common is they all are the Japanese Buddhism.
Don’t worry, it’s always harder to search for information in foreign languages. I just happen to be able to read Chinese and Japanese materials.

Just remember there are differences among them since you know now.
You can search the terms I used in my design, like “Shugendō (修験道)”, “Tariki-Hongan (他力本願)”, “Akunin-Shoki (悪人正機)”. Each of them is the core element of the Tendai or the Jodo Shinshu. Well, that needs people and you to be willing to read my designs but seems nobody cares. :cry:

Wars were even caused between them. You can also search the term “法華一揆” or “天文法華の乱”, the conflict between the Jodo Shinshu and the Tendai.

No. I do not mean this. I suggest we could use Hui people to replace it in the Mongolia and so on, since there are no elephant in the Mongolia. The place having elephants should still keep Sufism, such like Indochina and Deccan.

Hui people are also the Muslim.
Sometimes they include the modern Uyghurs, for a famous example.

I do not oppose the factions you said but clearly it can get better since it is not enough.

Once there are more maps added for the southern China, the North Shaolin Temple can be introduced and the original one can be renamed to the South Shaolin Temple for more accuracy. If there are enough maps, the Taoist Temple can also be considered.

If Japan can be separated into Kanto and Kansai, the Shinto Grand Shrine can be considered to be the second Japanese religion.

Tibetan Buddhist temple should be the Buddhism in the Mongolia, Manchuria, Himalayas and so on, not Shaolin.

Theravada Temple for the South Asian Buddhism and the Southeast Buddhism, not Zen.

The Hui people for the no-elephant Islamic groups in Inner Asia and North Asia.

For places that cannot be clearly covered by those religions, the tribes can only be considered, such like the Ainu, Formosans, and people in Siberia and so on.

Off course those mean the more maps are needed to be developed in the future. I remember the dev have promised to focus on Asia and South America soon.

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SHAOLIN
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SHAOLIN: Shaolin Temple | Age of Empires Series Wiki | Fandom)

Overview
They need more improvements. Furthermore I went for a focus on Shock Infantry, specially because Rattan Shield lack any multiplier, remarkable speed, effect or health.

  • Shaolin Sutra (300f, 300c, 300w; 20 s research time)​: Buddhist Sutras delivers 1 shipment but it arrives twice as slow.
    New Effect: Gives you 1 shipment to use but it arrives in 120s.
    Why:​ I personally despise the “gotta go fast!” shipment meta by D.E. civs, but I like this tech because it does exactly the opposite: it arrives late and it also slows down the queue of cards you earn in the meantime, so it’s a double-edged sword.
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Lore: Sutras are canonical scriptures, many of which are regarded as records of the oral teachings of Gautama Buddha. They are not aphoristic, but are quite detailed, sometimes with repetition. Sutra

  • Shaolin 18 Hands Style (300f, 300c)​: Shaolin teach Luohan’s 18 hands. With Kung Fu lessons your shock infantry are more agile and skilled.
    New Effect: Shock infantry move 7.5% faster and their hand attack is 10% faster (Unarmed shock infantry attack 20% faster instead).
    Why:​ By “Unarmed” shock infantry read it as “Disciple” & " Chasqui" etc: Since Chinese have a very useless shock infantry, lore-wise, I decided to further benefit unarmed shock infantry, so China can be more interested than other civs to align with a Shaolin Temple. I did a similar thing regarding Sufi and India.

Lore: Shaolin combat methods are taught via forms. The most famous styles of Shaolin kung fu is the 18 hands: Shaolin Luohan’s 18 hands movements are simple and straight, their methods are mostly done by the palms of the hands. Fists, hook hands, and other hand gestures and kicks are less used. Luohan quan

  • Shaolin Mahayana Routine (225f, 225c)​: Shaolin diet makes your units cost a bit less food.
    New Effect: Military units (except natives, mercenaries and siege units) cost 5% less food. Rattan Shield are trained 10% faster.
    Why:​ This is a mix of economic + military perk, inspired by one from OperaticShip743

Lore: The monks in Shaolin Monastery practice modified form of Mahayana Buddhism. It is called Chan Buddhism which spread to Korea and Japan. Generally, there are 3 main schools/branch of Buddhism and Mahayana is the strictest one in term of their diet.

  • REWORKED TECHS

All seem fine. Dim mark could have been cheaper though

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ZEN TEMPLE

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ZEN: Zen Temple | Age of Empires Series Wiki | Fandom

  • Monastic Conducts (150f, 150c)​: Monastic conducts enhance the focus of your warriors.
    New Effect: Mercenary units (except outlaws) and Sohei Naginata can regenerate life points even when moving (but not while fighting).
    Why:​ Mercenary are so expensive and it always bothered me they couldn’t heal themselves. Since Zen Temples were a place for enlightment I think I can fit Sohei Naginata here.
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Lore: Monkhood, is a religious way of life in which one renounces worldly pursuits to devote oneself fully to spiritual work. Monastic life plays an important role in many faiths such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism. Monasticism

  • Zen Fervor (250f, 250c)​: The monks’ fervor and beliefs for the cause increases Naginata Sohei’s damage in battle.
    New Effect: For every Naginata Sohei killed, boosts the damage of all other remaining Naginata Sohei by 25% for 5s. This buff caps at 50% damage and 10s duration. Reduces their cavalry multiplier by 0.5x.
    Why:​ I migrated this effect from Zapotec to Zen. I think it suits their brotherhood better.
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Lore: Their growing power base (warrior monks) was eventually to attract the attention of warlords like Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu, who recognized their opposition to samurai rule, their determination, their strength, and their numbers. Sōhei

  • Companionship (250w, 250c)​: The friendships with Zen gain the trust of civilian around the temple.
    New Effect: Your next Harbor HC card arrives much faster. Delivers 1 Wokou Junk and 2 fishing ships.
    Why:​ Not great but when I had finished Zen, I realized they were mostly on naval maps but they lacked any naval improvement. By “Harbor HC card” read as any card from “The Messenger”, “The Harbor”, “The Waterplace”, “Customs House”…

Lore: (…)these new groups, calling themselves Ikkō-ikki, followed the dictates of the Jōdo Shinshū sect of beliefs. They were essentially coalitions of religious fundamentalist priests, farmers, and families, who were willing to literally fight for their beliefs. Sōhei

  • Loyalty Pacts (300f, 300c)​: Following monastic conducts enhance the focus from warriors.
    New Effect: All Mercenary shipments and mercenaries hired on the map, except outlaws: -10% coin cost and arrive 10% faster.
    Also: You can use one single mercenary shipment you have already used again (if you do it that shipment will be 50% cheaper instead).

    Why:​ Zen would be allied/hired by the Daimyos, so a Mercenary technology is valid here.

Lore: Sohei were trained for war and defense of the Temples using physical rather than spiritual means.

REWORKED TECHS

  • Master Lessons (Melee infantry get +10% attack)
    Rework: Also: Naginata Sohei +10%HP.
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very interessting thx u :smiley:

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