But Sufi are on maps where Islam is represented. The temples and units have little to do with precise history (like Vanilla, Warchiefs and African Royals), they are there to generically represent factions.
Each religious site represents a big faction (religious/cultural/geographical/people): that’s why we have five religions: Islam, Sikh, Chinese/japanese Buddhism, Hindu and Catholicism.
Removing Sufi means we remove Islam.
That’s why we have so many Sufi and Jesuit sites on the maps: they are there to represent Arabs/Europeans - Muslim/Catholics.
The only thing they have in common is they all are the Japanese Buddhism.
Don’t worry, it’s always harder to search for information in foreign languages. I just happen to be able to read Chinese and Japanese materials.
Just remember there are differences among them since you know now.
You can search the terms I used in my design, like “Shugendō (修験道)”, “Tariki-Hongan (他力本願)”, “Akunin-Shoki (悪人正機)”. Each of them is the core element of the Tendai or the Jodo Shinshu. Well, that needs people and you to be willing to read my designs but seems nobody cares.
Wars were even caused between them. You can also search the term “法華一揆” or “天文法華の乱”, the conflict between the Jodo Shinshu and the Tendai.
No. I do not mean this. I suggest we could use Hui people to replace it in the Mongolia and so on, since there are no elephant in the Mongolia. The place having elephants should still keep Sufism, such like Indochina and Deccan.
Hui people are also the Muslim.
Sometimes they include the modern Uyghurs, for a famous example.
I do not oppose the factions you said but clearly it can get better since it is not enough.
Once there are more maps added for the southern China, the North Shaolin Temple can be introduced and the original one can be renamed to the South Shaolin Temple for more accuracy. If there are enough maps, the Taoist Temple can also be considered.
If Japan can be separated into Kanto and Kansai, the Shinto Grand Shrine can be considered to be the second Japanese religion.
Tibetan Buddhist temple should be the Buddhism in the Mongolia, Manchuria, Himalayas and so on, not Shaolin.
Theravada Temple for the South Asian Buddhism and the Southeast Buddhism, not Zen.
The Hui people for the no-elephant Islamic groups in Inner Asia and North Asia.
For places that cannot be clearly covered by those religions, the tribes can only be considered, such like the Ainu, Formosans, and people in Siberia and so on.
Off course those mean the more maps are needed to be developed in the future. I remember the dev have promised to focus on Asia and South America soon.
Overview
They need more improvements. Furthermore I went for a focus on Shock Infantry, specially because Rattan Shield lack any multiplier, remarkable speed, effect or health.
Shaolin Sutra (300f, 300c, 300w; 20 s research time): Buddhist Sutras delivers 1 shipment but it arrives twice as slow. New Effect:Gives you 1 shipment to use but it arrives in 120s. Why: I personally despise the “gotta go fast!” shipment meta by D.E. civs, but I like this tech because it does exactly the opposite: it arrives late and it also slows down the queue of cards you earn in the meantime, so it’s a double-edged sword.
Lore: Sutras are canonical scriptures, many of which are regarded as records of the oral teachings of Gautama Buddha. They are not aphoristic, but are quite detailed, sometimes with repetition.Sutra
Shaolin 18 Hands Style (300f, 300c): Shaolin teach Luohan’s 18 hands. With Kung Fu lessons your shock infantry are more agile and skilled. New Effect:Shock infantry move 7.5% faster and their hand attack is 10% faster (Unarmed shock infantry attack 20% faster instead). Why: By “Unarmed” shock infantry read it as “Disciple” & " Chasqui" etc: Since Chinese have a very useless shock infantry, lore-wise, I decided to further benefit unarmed shock infantry, so China can be more interested than other civs to align with a Shaolin Temple. I did a similar thing regarding Sufi and India.
Lore: Shaolin combat methods are taught via forms. The most famous styles of Shaolin kung fu is the 18 hands: Shaolin Luohan’s 18 hands movements are simple and straight, their methods are mostly done by the palms of the hands. Fists, hook hands, and other hand gestures and kicks are less used.Luohan quan
Shaolin Mahayana Routine (225f, 225c): Shaolin diet makes your units cost a bit less food. New Effect:Military units (except natives, mercenaries and siege units) cost 5% less food. Rattan Shield are trained 10% faster. Why: This is a mix of economic + military perk, inspired by one from OperaticShip743
Lore: The monks in Shaolin Monastery practice modified form of Mahayana Buddhism. It is called Chan Buddhism which spread to Korea and Japan. Generally, there are 3 main schools/branch of Buddhism and Mahayana is the strictest one in term of their diet.
REWORKED TECHS
All seem fine. Dim mark could have been cheaper though
Monastic Conducts (150f, 150c): Monastic conducts enhance the focus of your warriors. New Effect:Mercenary units (except outlaws) and Sohei Naginata can regenerate life points even when moving (but not while fighting). Why: Mercenary are so expensive and it always bothered me they couldn’t heal themselves. Since Zen Temples were a place for enlightment I think I can fit Sohei Naginata here.
Lore: Monkhood, is a religious way of life in which one renounces worldly pursuits to devote oneself fully to spiritual work. Monastic life plays an important role in many faiths such as Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism. Monasticism
Zen Fervor (250f, 250c): The monks’ fervor and beliefs for the cause increases Naginata Sohei’s damage in battle. New Effect:For every Naginata Sohei killed, boosts the damage of all other remaining Naginata Sohei by 25% for 5s. This buff caps at 50% damage and 10s duration. Reduces their cavalry multiplier by 0.5x. Why: I migrated this effect from Zapotec to Zen. I think it suits their brotherhood better.
Lore: Their growing power base (warrior monks) was eventually to attract the attention of warlords like Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu, who recognized their opposition to samurai rule, their determination, their strength, and their numbers.Sōhei
Companionship (250w, 250c): The friendships with Zen gain the trust of civilian around the temple. New Effect:Your next Harbor HC card arrives much faster. Delivers 1 Wokou Junk and 2 fishing ships. Why: Not great but when I had finished Zen, I realized they were mostly on naval maps but they lacked any naval improvement. By “Harbor HC card” read as any card from “The Messenger”, “The Harbor”, “The Waterplace”, “Customs House”…
Lore: (…)these new groups, calling themselves Ikkō-ikki, followed the dictates of the Jōdo Shinshū sect of beliefs. They were essentially coalitions of religious fundamentalist priests, farmers, and families, who were willing to literally fight for their beliefs.Sōhei
Loyalty Pacts (300f, 300c): Following monastic conducts enhance the focus from warriors. New Effect:All Mercenary shipments and mercenaries hired on the map, except outlaws: -10% coin cost and arrive 10% faster.
Also: You can use one single mercenary shipment you have already used again (if you do it that shipment will be 50% cheaper instead). Why: Zen would be allied/hired by the Daimyos, so a Mercenary technology is valid here.
Well thought! Something similar I thought with the Caribs. In fact, many natives should offer benefits according to the conditions of the map. For example Comanches, hunting bonuses.
Add to that + 15-20% in the berry picking cup. They usually appear on maps where there are berries. (if it makes sense)
Charity (200f, 200w, 200c): As your citizens practice Daana, your civilization as a whole is rewarded. New Effect:You receive a small special trickle based on the main civ you are playing: -African: 1.2 influence/s -Asians: 0.2 Export/s -Euros & Major Natives: 0.8 xp/s -Americans: 1 coin/s Resource Trickles from Home City cards and Minor tribes sites are buffed by 50% as long as you have a TP on a Bhakti Temple. Why: All special trickles above are actually boosted by 50%.
Lore-wise, since Bhakti comes from India, it gives more reason for Indian players to ally with Bhakti because they always have the wood trickle cards. I had even made a food trickle tech for Udasi who are with Bhakti at several maps. Keeping the trading post is fundamental to receive a worthy amount of resource.
Lore:In Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism, dāna is the practice of cultivating generosity. It can take the form of giving to an individual in distress or need. It can also take the form of philanthropic public projects that empower and help many. Dana
Strikes of the Forgotten Ones (200w, 200c): New Effect:Outlaws are trained much faster (-33% train time). Outlaws, Tiger Claw and Settlers do +30% hand damage Why: Considering Bhakti was a cultural movement that embraced peasants, marginalized citizens and people regardless of castes or income and “Tiger Claw” was a weapon used in streets, I thought of buffing the “forgotten” ones: villagers and outlaws.
Lore:Poisoned bagh nakh had been used by the Rajput clans for assassinations. The weapon is often associated with thieves and assassins.Bagh nakh
Dedication (200c & 10xp every 3 min of the game, up to 30 min) E.g: Max cost: 2000c &100xp: Letting go of earthly tether to receive actual value for your living. New Effect:Delivers 100f and 100w for every 3 min that has passed, up to 30 min. Why: Filler tech. It might look ok but do remind that Asians have a card that cuts the cost of native techs in half and Europeans have one that makes the coin cost zero.
Lore: “The movement has traditionally been considered an influential social reformation in Hinduism in that it provided an individual-focused alternative path to spirituality regardless of one’s birth or gender. The Bhakti movement began with the aim of reforming traditional Hinduism with its strict caste system partly due to the rise and influence of ideas from Islam.” Bhakti Movement
REWORKED TECHS
Vegetarianism (100w,100c) (Villagers gather from Berry Bushes 40% faster) Rework: Also: Can be used a second time with double the cost to spawn a berry bush rickshaw with 4 bushes of 500f each. Why: This technology is kind of situational although Bhakti maps have berry bush. At least with this, you can have more than one berry bush in your Home City.
Reinforced Gauntlets (200f, 200c) (Tiger Claws get +50%hit points) Rework: Also: Tiger Claw gains +1.0x multiplier vs infantry. Why: I never understood why reinforcing a weapon gives more HP. It should just buff the damage but whatever. Tiger Claw sucks: their bonus damage vs LI is equal to Hussar’s base damage vs everyone + he is slower and with lower HP too, on top of doing a pathetic 8 damage vs Heavy infantry.
Yoga (200f, 200c) (Infantry, light infantry and cavalry get +5% attack) Rework: They get +10% instead. Cost goes up (275f, 275c) Why: +5% isn’t that impactful in Supremacy. The devs even buffed Cree’s HP equivalent to 10% and they even lowered the cost.
I thought about having a technology exclusive for berry bush too but I don’t remember why I had included it it into Vegetarianism.
It’s a good idea though.
The ideas you proposed for these are probably my favorite.
By the way since you mentioned disciples… I think a visual change that gives them a traditional spear when you go for White Pagoda would be very fitting.
I also appreciate that you now take into account the different costs, as to give relevance to native lore discount HC Cards
Now that the Mayans have ranged attack, we could add an additional upgrade over the ‘Champion’ upgrade, (a similar upgrade to ‘Caribbean ceremonial feast’). This upgrade could be the ’ ÁTLATL (lever)’ upgrade. Increases the range of holca warriors by +2 and grants a bonus against heavy infantry and cavalry in general.
It is already present in AOE-2 for the Aztecs, but I think it could be available for the Mayans. It might even be available to the Aztecs of AOE-3, but I don’t know which units it might affect. Maybe it could be a new unlockable card unit that makes puma spearmen have ranged attack and makes otontin warrior shipments turn into shipments of a new unit. Something like an Aztec version nizam.Átlatl | Age of Empires Wiki | Fandom
The Maya made use of the spear-thrower known as an atlatl, or a hul’che. Common across multiple pre-Columbian cultures, atlatls were especially prominent in Central Mexico. Effectively an extension of a throwing arm, the spear-thrower is a tool which uses leverage to throw darts and javelins. The butt end of the projectile is placed into the cup of the spear-thrower, then it is thrown with an overhand wrist motion.https://www.historyhit.com/maya-weapons/
Mayan warriors made weapons with wood, stone, flint blades, and obsidian. With these materials they made spears of different lengths and stone and obsidian axes that received the generic name of b’aj. There were also the jul or throwing type weapons, such as blowguns, javelins and slingshots. Due to the influence of central Mexico, the atlatl or spearguns were incorporated, which in the Mayan language was called jatz’om, in addition to the bow and arrows that, according to some researchers, were also introduced by Mexican mercenaries during the Postclassic period (900-1521). AD) or by the Chontal Maya during the Terminal Classic (800-900 AD).Los temibles guerreros de las ciudades mayas
A good unit, but I think the range should improve by +1 with each upgrade up to 18 total. Like the Cree they should have a rank of 18.
Current technologies seem acceptable to me, but not very good actually. I will propose the following reworkings:
Current improvements:
Cherokee War Dance: Now reduces native price by 5%, and increases damage output by 10%.
I think it would be more useful if instead of increasing the speed of the natives, it increased their damage capacity and reduced costs. I think that would also make more sense. “The War Dance was used not only when men went to war, but also when meeting with other nations for diplomacy and peace, and within the Cherokee nation was also used to raise money for people in need. It conveys the strength of the Cherokee nation.”The Warriors of AniKituhwa | The Museum of the Cherokee Indian
Sequoyah’s Cherokee Syllabary: Gives you 5 Cherokee villagers allows you to create them again in case you lose them, and increases the population by +5.
I thought it made sense to deliver European-type settlers, but after consulting better I realized that it is better that they have the skin of the Native American style. In fact, the same tradition says it within the game: Cherokee literacy lets Cherokee villagers work closely with you. You get a shipment of four Settlers. But they shouldn’t be settlers, they should be Native American villagers. Cherokee syllabary - Wikipedia
Cherokee Basket Weaving: In addition to the current buffs, berry picking is increased by 20%, and fishing and hunting are increased by 5%.
Consulting better I have realized that it was a very important part of their culture and economy, so they could have a broader purpose. “Baskets were made by the Cherokee people for a wide variety of reasons and purposes and in many unique shapes and sizes. Some basket styles featured beautifully crafted lids, handles, and accents. Some Cherokee basket weaves are even waterproof. Baskets used to catch fish, store grain, and carry food and water were often called market baskets. Other baskets were made for clothing storage, ceremonial use, and even games. Weavers have also been known to design specialty baskets like knitting baskets, sewing baskets, hanging baskets, and more.”Cherokee Basket Weaving | Cherokee, NC
New improvements:
Flint corn: Excess corn allows for the rise of larger chiefdoms which increases the Cherokee soldier limit by +7, and the Cheokee villager limit by +2. In addition, food crops increase their production by 15%. “During the Mississippian culture-period (1000 to 1500 CE in the regional variation known as the South Appalachian Mississippian culture), local women developed a new variety of maize (corn) called eastern [flint corn] (Flint corn - Wikipedia). It closely resembled modern corn and produced larger crops. The successful cultivation of corn surpluses allowed the rise of larger, more complex chiefdoms consisting of several villages and concentrated populations during this period. Corn became celebrated among numerous peoples in religious ceremonies, especially the Green Corn Ceremony.”Cherokee - WikipediaFlint corn - Wikipedia
Note:I had already proposed this above, but as 2 separate things and I decided to unify them.
Cherokee Phoenix: By choosing to inform yourself with the “Cherokee Phoenix” newspaper, you will support their cause and receive the newspaper in your metropolis destination.
Every time you advance in age and receive a shipment from the metropolis, you will receive the newspaper that your villagers can collect giving you experience. (like the US and Mexico books).
(When making the improvement, the ages that you have advanced so far will be assumed, delivering the corresponding newspapers).
You will also get +5 experience from trading posts no matter what configuration you are on. For example if I am receiving food I will give you food + 5 experience.
Nice!
Funny enough that Cherokee, I believe, was the only one minor civilization I didn’t write about here.
And ironically the only new tech I had ever thought about them was one related to aging up too!
…and for South America there could also be many more natives. There could be natives with firearms. I don’t know why only North Americans use firearms and cavalry. The Tupies even had cannons (as far as I know).
I don’t know about Tupis having cannons, but I think we need at least 10 more South American minor civs.
That’s a given, but Tupis didn’t disappear immediately after they met the Portuguese. They’re still alive, even if not as big anymore.
For Asia, I’d also suggest adding Bedouins (also for North African maps), Mongols (bumped from random units to a minor civ), Tatars (same as mongols) and Evenkis. I unfortunately don’t know much about specific South American natives to suggest any specific one.
"In the same year Father Montoya, after having successfully opposed the attempts of the governor and the bishop of Asunción to reduce the natives’ liberties and the mission administration, sailed for Europe. On this trip he was successful in obtaining letters from Pope Urban VIII forbidding the enslavement of the missionaries under the severest church penalties, and from King Philip IV of Spain, permitting Guaranis to carry firearms for defense and to be trained in their use by veteran soldiers who had become Jesuits.
When the next Paulista army, 800 strong, attacked the missions in 1641 they were met by a body of Christian Guarani armed with guns on the Acaray River. "
Once consulting to make my proposals here I came across this. Of course, granted by Europeans later.
