I’m kinda averse to adding more natives atm. Maybe if more maps were added expanding into Southern Africa or Arabia you’d have to add ones like the Zulu or the Bedouins, but outside of that I don’t see the necessity. From the players pov, most don’t pay enough attention to natives as is so adding even more would do nothing but increase that barrier. And from the devs pov, design space for natives is getting increasingly limited especially after they went all out for Africa.
If you really wanna see more natives added, I suggest petitioning the devs to polish the unused or underused minor civs already in the game (Aztec, Haude, Lakota, & Lenape) so they might be used beyond custom maps. Although, I am hesitant because I worry that such changes might negatively impact the campaign experience, as already happened when the devs made changes to minor Aztecs in the Mexico update.
Moreover, such discussions seem kinda off topic for this thread. This is supposed to be for discussing possible changes to already existing natives, adding new ones is for another thread (one which already exists iirc). I know I’ve already said my piece on this, but I think small targeted changes at individual techs and units is the better approach rather than broad reimaginings. And after so many months and posts that feeling has only solidified. Not only do I think it’s for the best in my lay opinion, it seems those kinds of changes are what the devs would be most likely to implement, as the changes to natives over the course of DE’s development and update cycle have been mostly small and targeted.
And frankly, most of my suggestions in this thread are probably too much to even meet that standard! My boldest stance is probably adding Aztec, Haude, and Lakota back in. Haude and Lakota are fully functional, as can be seen in the campaigns or scenario editor, and but for a name change and minor tweaks to techs overlapping with Huron and Cheyenne could be added back in right now (and on a map like Unknown, even that much isn’t necessary). Aztec was the same way before the Mexico patch threw a wrench into it. Now, they’re copy pasted versions of the major Aztec units, the main problem being they’re locked to age 3 which makes them virtually unusable in the context of a native rush. Nevermind my own quibbles about overwriting their old stats and bonuses as removing from the design space and straying from the original dev’s vision. Unlike the others, Lenape would need some serious work if they were to be added to standard maps. I believe the need new visual and audio assets, as they borrow wholesale from the Cherokee and Cree respectively.
Beyond that, I think I’ve outlined an overhaul for Nootka (which you honestly wouldn’t need to fully implement), suggested new techs for Maya and Seminole (2 techs really feels strange post-Africa), the adding back of the Maya Spearmen (alongside the new Javaliner) or at least letting the Maya hp tech affect their own unit, suggested that the Seminole siege tech also slightly improve all archers (only 1.5x-2x, the Sharktooth should stay 4x), gave changes for Comanche and Navajo techs to bring them in line with the Cree’s improved infantry and cav hp tech (maybe throw Bhakti’s attack tech in there for good measure), and ask for Zapotec Lightning Warriors to have their speed slightly increased (5-5.5 is fine, I know they’ll never be 6 speed again, 4.5 just feels so slow). I don’t expect most of these changes to be made, in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if none of them are. But I read through what else has been put forward and, while it’s fun idle speculation and somewhat informative, I don’t see it as being realistically workable. Aside from concerns of balance and respect for the original vision of the game, it doesn’t seem to be in line with the vision of the current devs or the purpose they have in mind for natives.
All that’s to say is it’s fine to dream big I guess, but if you want to see actual changes for the better I think the best method is take baby steps.
Anyway, I’m still quite satisfied with my prior suggestions for new techs for Seminole and Maya. Giving the Seminole an eco tech would give players a new reason to ally with them (especially ones without archers), and a bonus for +15% gather rate for all natural food sources (hunts, livestock, berries, and fish [and maybe cherry orchards?]) is not only untapped design space but also synergizes well with the maps Seminole appear on (Florida, Carolina, Bayou) as they have a wide variety of food types.
For Maya, I still like the idea of incorporating one of their AoE 2 bonuses. It’s an easy way to find inspiration while giving a nice reference to long time fans. I like +5% or +10% gather yield for all natural res the most, and there’s already something similar with a USA card (one of Kentucky’s iirc) so it’s clearly an improvement the devs are comfortable with but not one known to native techs yet. Some alternate suggestions: a 10% cost reduction for all archers (a similar discount for hand infantry is available from Somali); Obsidian Arrows, even though this tech was removed from AoE 2 a while ago, could be a way to grant archers bonus damage vs buildings if the devs weren’t amenable to expanding the effect of the Seminole’s Guerilla Warfare to all archers.
OperaticShip and Mozzila sometimes also have basically the same ideas as I do (which were not posted).
. OperaticShip743 is much more optimistic than me but it is what it is and I wouldn’t be surprised if this rework never happens.
