During clown cup, viper was playing as Spanish and he actually suggested that missionaries should be able to pick up relics. This is surprising because viper normally is very hesitant to say a civ should need a buff or nerf. He said maybe they lose 50% speed when they pick it up as a trade off. I think this would be cool as well. Thoughts?
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Someone like Viper knows that if he said âx need a nerf and y need a buffâ that everyone else will scream the same. Just to repeat the Viper. Thus this what you are doing now. For me, that is way he just dont really say much about balance changes.
It still seems a cool idea.
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That would be funny. But to be honest then you should at least raise the gold cost for the donkey monk.
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we have actually already seen this happen on these very forums already.
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I understand the concern about people copping what streamers (and other people from communityâs authority) say and repeating it on forums just to back up their own ideas.
The Original Poster could manipulate the context in order to distort the meaning and use it as a way to gain authorization.
Which actually has happened many times on this forum.
This time @letmepickthis is giving out the context and quoting exactly what Viper said and what he meant so I donât think thereâs anything bad about doing so.
I watched it live.
Iâve heard the idea of missionaries being able to grab a relic before and it sounded too strong to me - especially on Arena.
But then Viper added that after grabbing the relic missionaries could be slowed down.
Combined with that mechanic I actually like it.
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100%!!! this! cant believe how many times someone takes any comment completely out of context just to justify themselves⊠nuts!
regardless of what viper said, i think missionaries should be able to pick up relics, its not like spain is domianting the meta
lots of peeps have asked for this
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If slow down when they pick up the relic to a speed similar to the one of the standard moks than I think it could work.
They still get there faster than regular monks
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Why? The unit is currently pretty much useless and this change doesnt make them OP. I dont really see why you would raise the costâŠ
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True, that would be a huge boost for spanish.
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i think it will make spain win all the games as soon as they identify where the relics are⊠
no no no i exaggerate⊠it will only push their win rate to 60%⊠ah balance! 
(i dont think it will break anything)
Maybe Iâm exaggerating but 60% faster moving units does mean theyâll always win relic wars. Sure relics alone doesnât win the game but it sure does help a lot. Both cost same gold and creation time and the missionary can have 50 to 65 HP (compared to 45 max on generic)
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yeah definitely, but then we have to guard relics vs lith(due to the high threat potential), so not a huge meta change to have to do similar vs spain.
Spanish would force the enemy on building a stable an training scouts to guard relics, especially in arena.
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Yeah but itâs still possible to get relics vs Liths. I propose a safer buff like 8 or 9 range like normal monks
How is this different then playing against lithianians or even aztecs? Actually every arena game is about fighting for the relics. This buff will give spanish a better change at getting the relics. It is still no guarentee.
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yeah definitely an option⊠but then its a question of stronger âcomabt utilityâ in being able to convert and run more easily, vs a potentially smaller situational âeco utilityâ of being able to get to a relic first âŠ
which the more i think of it makes less sense⊠since the further relics will take longer to get to anyway, so your own slower monk has a shorter distance to cover than the spanish monk, unless youâre trying to steal the âspanish relicsâ? the greater speed of the missionary is partly countered by the inherent greater distance they need to cover to âsteal your relicâ, which you could counter even further by bulding a forward monasteryâŠ
agreed⊠its not like spain has a ground breaking economy as it is(arguably one of the worst unique buffs to eco)⊠aztec and viking mega economies are permissable?
I know, I mean that itâs a good thing, a nice small advantage far from being OP.
A 50% speed reduction would leave a Missionary on a crippling 0.55 speed, making it an easy target⊠A 20% speed reduction while carrying a relic means the Missionary is barely faster than a Monk, which seems more reasonable to me.
I also considered an increase in creation time, to balance out the advantage in relic race, but I fear that would be counter productive.
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Is there something wrong with having an edge to other civs about getting relics? Why need âhaving a edgeâ te be balanced out by something else?
We also have some civs that can advance to castle age pretty quickly. Those civs has also some edge over other civs to get more relics. A civ like Khmer can do some 23+0 and is minutes before other civs in castle age and thus have much more time to pick up relics. I think that is fine too.