Mongols are killing the 1v1 for me

I think their eco is pretty weak unless they get the trade up. But then they cant mass units like they could otherwise. Other civs have really strong bonuses too. French eco upgrade discount and 20% faster vil, england getting 2 archery range for free, and longbows which can kill mongol pressure safely from under TC, and cheap farm. China with their official drop off bonus and cashback(So many players not using this properly, why??), just survive a bit and get maa and cloctower siege and you are fine. Abbasid with half price on vils, and can build springalds with no upgradeā€¦ HRE with 40% extra carry and 40% extra gather rateā€¦ Im telling you, if prelate dont bug out the stone from ovoo cant keep up with this bonus. Rus which dont have to gather gold at all in age 1 and get market with favorable tradesā€¦ Dehli with their insane sacred sites eco, netting 600g a minute with 3, and spears that can wall them inā€¦

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They just have too many options on their hand, especially the early games, almost all compositions are viable for them, and tower rush is also a threat. French might be strong but itā€™s very predictable, 95% of the time is gonna be knight/archer.

not to mention the castle age infantry build siege weapons, I donā€™t think they should have this option at all.

Springalds need a huge nerf. This goes for all civs. Games shuold not just be springalds with some cheap meatshield in front.

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I think RashEquation got it. Mongols need the early game advantage and commit to risky aggro. Iā€™d say their hardest matchup is English.

Other civs have bonus for of mid game tradeoff.

If anything Iā€™d probably just nerf Mongols by making their outposts 50w more expensive. Canā€™t spam them as easily.

Having options is great for RTS, IMHO.

No their eco is not weak at all, they just have to choose if they wanna have mad control/combat or mad eco between the landmarks depending on how THEY wanna play the game.

if they choose the silver tree for the second age on a map with a market, for most Civs the only option you have is a second age all in to stop the trade, itā€™s not possible to outboom them no matter how greedy of a build you have, 2 or 3 TC wont matter, they will overrun you with gold units before your third TC could even make any impact.

and the redoubt with 50% more gold? this along tramples all other Civs eco-tech gimmicks.

I donā€™t know how good the white stupa is, it looks pretty good but I donā€™t usually live that long to see it.

Dude HRE get 40% bonus for all resources without having to invest in even a age up building, and +40% carry rate.

And the trade route needs to be quite long and covered in outposts. If they spend stone on traders they will have barely any units. And it takes minutes for the traders to train and walk all the way. Thereā€™s plenty of time to ram them. Or outpost and control the native trading posts. Not doing this is like leaving an enemy that goes 3+ TC alone to boom

counter pick has no value in a quick match 1v1, and even the English is not really a counter, it just better to have the longbows than not.

and its not good to have more options in an RTS game if you are the only Civ with this many viable options.

Then why is HRE is widely considered C tier while most pros call for Mongols nerf?

yea sure silver tree is not a freewin it comes with its own cost but that is not what I am saying, I am saying the Mongols have eco options if they so choose, and their eco option is also better than others.

IMO, only the french and HRE are so locked into a single build. With every other civ being able to go 2 random mil buildings.

Mongols can just define their win conditions earlier, so you have to snap back.

As delhi you can outboom a trader mongol with 2 sacred sites and kill his main base, early castle. They get confused and go into d and aggro back and fourth before knowing what hit them.

I feel you need to step back as i sense a level of tunnel vision were you are not adapting to your enemy.

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Because of the HRE prelate bug that make them inconsistent and you win or lose based on the prevalence of this bug. This bug also make pros not invest time into them so civs like mongols are more figured out

Yeah I realized that as well, this is just a rant after all, this is an RTS game, at the end the only thing you could really do is still to ā€œgit gudā€. LOL

the prelates donā€™t bug that often as people made out to be, HREā€™s problem is not really the prelate bug, at least not in my game when I play them.

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HRE is just so weak in a meta where cavalry and mobility are key.

Fast castle as HRE us the only viable option.

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English is the hardest enemy to play against as Mongol by far and ofc itā€™s a counter. Longbow actually counters everything from Mongol until castle age. Usually, people donā€™t scout enough against Mongols, itā€™s not that easy to ram rush someone, or tower rush with deer stone. And traders are quite easy to kill and quite hard to defend.

Springalds are way too strong thatā€™s true but I think Mongols are not that OP as people say, just they didnā€™t get used to playing against them yet.

Just scout a lot, check trade routes, and check oovo location, if you see mangudai just produce some archers and thatā€™s it. Mangudai is very weak and dies easily against archers. + protect gold sites with outposts.

Also, HRE early maa rush with a few archer is extremely hard to counter as mongol. So no, mongols are not that op, deer stone should be nerfed, building move speed bonus should be fixed and I think they will be fine. Springalds are strong everywhere.

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Man, first week French , now Mongols
Relax , this is new game ,just go and learn how to play it , do you know next imba Civ maybe Chinese? Dehli ? Then what ? Dehli killing 1v1 ?

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Try HRE. As Mongols I really struggle to beat them. Especially if they hit imperial. Theyā€™re just so tanky and defensive then their infantry destroys me. Only civ I struggle to beat.

Thatā€™s probably because HRE has relic and can spam units but No holes trade route with towers should be stronger than relicsā€¦

Exactly, so crazy to see. Less than 1 month of the game and we as a players donā€™t know all the possibilities this game has.Since Vortix and LucifroN came up to Genesis with good Delhi Sultanate preparation, people now start to use and winning a lot too and it was considered one of the worse. Also HRE with their prelates taking hunt, etc now people is exploring more the civs and not taking the easiest to learn to be able to play in a tournament. Civ is stating that Chinese are the best and he is try harding them. Of course 1 thing is OP is the french Hulk in water but some other things we thought, after a good preparation and practicing a little bit we saw itā€™s possible to take down french. Maybe in Low ELO it will still be the strongest but just because itā€™s more simple, maybe yes, a small nerf can help so everybody can enjoy. Yeah mongols have a lot of adaptability so scouting itā€™s must. The good thing in this game is that we donā€™t have a meta, and maybe we must stop playing the same way with a civ and try anotherthings and we will deal against mongols really better. I think developers and players aready saw the biggest balance needs, but with time we will find more things, new strategies, new BO and ways to attack against every civ. Of course there are match ups that one civ is better than the other on paper in some map, but itā€™s impossible a full balance. itā€™s like aoe 2, some civ match ups benefit one but strategy and map can change that

Probably the biggest issues with mongols is

  1. They are busted on hybrid maps barring bay because fish is super good and thereā€™s no fighting double spears in age 1/early age2, meaning only mongols get fish unless you have a back pond. (also you risk a vill getting picked by the khan when docking)
  2. springalds built by infantry is op (especially with khan buffs), at least abbasids have basically no dark/feudal army bonuses so they have to actually get to castle, but mongols also have a really strong early game. With the confirmed springald nerfs this will stop being super op.

Edit: Delhi can arguably go fish age 1 because fishing boats will actually shoot the spears so you cant just burn down a dock with 4 spearman/horseman

your logic doesnā€™t make any sense.

English second age is very strong, their second age aggression presents a huge threat to all Civs not just Mongol.

and ā€œEnglish is the hardest enemy to play against as Mongolā€ doesnā€™t mean English is a counter to Mongols it just meant Mongol is having too easy of a time against others in the second age.

there is no denying the edges Mongols have over the other Civs in the 1v1 as the Pros and the devs are saying the same ā€” the debate is about how much they should be nerfed, NOT if they should get nerfed.

cause they getting nerfed for sure.

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