Yeah for me too…(The Swiss don’t count xd)…
Yeah,it works too…
Well,Polynesia don’t have many great kingdoms that could be add in the game…What propose you?..
Sure,but is more for fan nostalgia with the saga…Choson in AoE 1,Koreans in AoE 2 and then Koreans in AoE 3 (maybe in AoE 4 too)…
Yeah,Kongolese and Merina could be fine…
Yeah,and early machines guns…
Sure,sure…we want Shaka and Cetawayo…
Similar to Korea (but less unique), no major external conflicts in almost the entire span of the game (only the Napoleonic invasion). They are already represented well enough with mercenaries.
They might work as revolution for the Germans, but other than that, I see no reason to be playable in aoe3.
Like you’ve just said, I am not sure that region really has many civ candidates other than maybe Hawaii. Even the Malay archielago, despite not hosting powerful kingdoms after the fall of Majapahit and Malacca, would still offer better candidates than Polynesia in my opinion. Altough we could perfectly get new natives, that for sure.
Yeah, maybe a broader Polinesian native settlement would work better. This, of course, would depend on how many maps we could get from Oceania.
Yeah, but don’t forget that Sandy Petersen said they were included in the first place to boost sales in South Korea 
However, I still think their presence is perfectly justified in a medieval game like aoe2. The problem is that during the Early Modern Era they were almost completely isolated from the rest of the world.
Yeah,and maybe as revolution for France and Italy too…
Yeah,I hope the devs surprise us with Hawaii and some other Polynesian civ more…
Yes, it’s quite a topic… I was looking for some of the most important events in Korean history before and after the Japanese invasion and I found a lot of information and some rebellions that maybe could be used as cards, plus you have the Korean wonders that could be used in the game…
I think if the development of the game was really for a long time then civs like the Swiss could come up. Of course, after adding the most desired civs (European powerhouses, African civs, Asian civs, etc.).
AoE 3 Definitive Edition gives you the opportunity to make European civs even more interesting. The Italians and Maltese have so much unique content that older European civs might envy them. I think that also the Swiss could be such an unconventional European civ.
The swiss civ would certainly be a defensive civ due to their neutrality. They should also have some unique economic building that would be in the style of the Dutch Bank or Italian Lombard. Such a building could replace the default Market.
Since the Maltese civs came into the game, the gate has opened up for many other smaller civs - although I would rather have Sicilians instead of Maltese (because Malta was part of Sicily.).
I think that in the case of the Wonders mechanic, it should only remain for the current three Asian civs (which are also the most famous). Alternatively, this mechanic could be added to other East Asian civs (including Indian and Southeast Asian). Central Asia and the Middle East should offer something completely new and unique. Civs like Persians, Arabians, Tartars, etc could bring freshness - after all, it’s a region between Europe, Africa and Asia.
Yes, I think they could put the Swiss but in the very long term, both in AoE 2 (1291-1513) with campaign about the Rise of the Old Swiss Confederacy (1315-1499) like The Hautevilles and AoE 3 (1513-1798) with a historical batlle of ################################################################ (1591) or Toggenburg War (1712) like Fall of the Hausa…
Yes, the same Sicily would be represented by the Italians…
Yes, but they are still Asian civs so they would have to function mechanically in the same way: European civs have politicians, Native Americans have advisors, Asians have wonders, Post-colonial civs have federal states and Africans have alliances…
I think restricting Asians to the Wonder and Consulate mechanics is too, y’know, restrictive
I think you really overestimate how difficult it is to design new wonders and consulate allies.
It must be pretty difficult because all the ones in the game are exceptionally poorly designed.
Yes, but that’s the way it is, it would also be 5 wonders per civ (10 in total) per dlc; AoE 4 has 10 landmarks per civ (20 in total) per dlc and that requires more work and balance and yet the devs do it…
Even for the smallest group, we can all find terms that fit into the cards in their culture or history. But until then, we still have more groups that are better suited to be a new civilization.
The miracle mechanics are just a mess.
When the theme of the whole game is still “building new towns/tribes in undeveloped/strange lands, expanding territories and fighting”, it is not in line with the theme to let the monuments that should only belong to the mother country be built in the new world. I can understand the desire to see those gorgeous buildings in the game, but there should be a better way, like the appearance of the Basilica based on a specific monument without emphasizing that it is that monument.
Then, they just found 5 monuments almost at random and applied effects almost at random.
Why is the Great Buddha related to spies? Why is the Summer Palace related to the army? Why does the Taj Mahal appear in the home city and the base in the game at the same time?
If the biggest focus of the entire mechanic is to allow age advances to give the civs some special functions or abilities, these things may not need to be attached to buildings, let alone specific monuments.
We can have a politician-like “Ninja Leader” directly provide the Japanese with spying services that require cooling, but it will no longer be free except for the first time.
We can use “Fortified Town/Frontier Town” that does not refer to specific monuments to provide the effect of the current Summer Palace, and it can also provide a population equivalent to that of a Village, which is more in line with Chinese military history.
We can grant cease fire ability to the hero when the hero of Indians is also supposed to be some kind of military leader or land lord like Raja or Zamindar rather than a religious figure.
Not to mention new Asian civs, I think it would be great if the existing Asian civs could be changed for this.
Maybe Wonders could be reworked?
Instead of picking a very limited and finite selection of wonders to build which would be a barrier for some potential future Asian Civs, why don’t we make the Age Up screen a selection of just the powers/perks they grant instead of the famous landmarks? Once you select the perk (as normal), instead of placing the building to work on, you actually get a ‘power’ to use?
You click on the power (much like a typical AD power on your screen) and select any of your existing buildings that correspond to the perk type (i.e military, religious or eco building) , and now that building can have villagers assigned to it… to upgrade it. When upgraded, in exactly the same way as prior Wonders, the building triggers the Age Up. The building now gains a prefix - maybe Esteemed, Renowned or something else to designate how one of your common buildings has become a wonder of sorts. Trying not to be a ‘Mystical East’ thing whilst not throwing away the Wonder element, this method reflects in an abstracted way that any building could become a wonder - certain religious buildings become very famous and had pilgrimages far and wide, some houses may have had renowned occupants which led to their preservation and there were often castles/fortresses that garnered legendary reputation.
An in-game example:
The Indians currently have a castle, barracks and rice paddy built and would like to Age-up. The player clicks on Age Up, then selects a Military Wonder (originally a rather more religious Charminar Gates) which enables Mansabar units, then uses the power to designate the barracks as a Barracks of Renown. Until it’s had the extra construction completed (‘upgraded’) by the villagers, it’s unusable, however when it has been improved, the player is brought to the next age and solely unique to that barracks - it gains that Wonder prefix/suffix, chonky Wonder HP and in this case the ability to train Mansabar units. It also gets a little prestigious flag on the building to let the enemy know that it’s a Wonder!
What about those existing, one-of-a-kind Wonders then?
Well, these could stay (even if they reduce the number), but exclusively as builder wagon shipments. They don’t age you up, but give you a unique perk or power (differing from the Age-up variety) that stays in effect as long as the ‘Unique Wonder’. Any future Asian Civs with a Wonder mechanic might have these Unique Wonders too though the civs which may lack or have lots of overlap could simply get other shipments to improve the ‘normal’ wonders.
I think that’s worse than the wonders. Because it requires you to have a building ready before age up, which is an extra investment, particularly on Age 1. (You’d basically just defaulting a random house to be your wonder.)
I agree that the existing wonder system is very dumb. Although it’s not the topic of the thread. Probably reworking them into more generic landmarks would be a welcome move to make the civs less orientalist.
I dislike the wonder age up mechanic but I don’t want AoE3 to feel even more AoM-y, Community Plaza ceremonies already feel too much like god powers.
Let the more fantastical stuff stay in AoM.
Consulate allies probably isn’t that bad, but wonders i do think is hard.
if we look at the original wonders then it seems like they ran out of good ideas after japan, china has 3 factory wonders and india literally gets a fort and a wonder that slightly increases villager speed around it, not exactly super interesting.
there are also just limits to what you really can show in these wonders, the global heal and dmg boosts are probably about as fantastical as you can get, no “god rays” etc. for wonders.
i think the original designers seems to have made wonders so that each civ had:
1 utility (heal, Peace and scout)
1 military boost (GP, indian damage boost and the chinese one for their monk)
1 economic (porcellain tower, shrine and the indian 10% boost)
1 production (indian super units, shogunate and summer palace)
1 misc (xp for japan, unique siege unit for china and the fort for india)
now one can obviously change these up, come up with new bonuses etc. but whenever i read peoples suggestions often times they seem very uninspired or too fantastical to be added. 5 factories for Korea for example doesn’t at all sound fun or interesting.
I think adding the same mechanics to literally every potential Asian civ is pointless. I think this can be limited to civs from the subcontinent of India, Southeast Asia and the Far East - because these three regions are already somewhat surrounded by civs that have these mechanics. Middle Eastern and Central Asian civs should get something completely new and unique - THESE WERE ALREADY ISLAMIC CIVS. In part, also the civs present in the game (Ottomans and Mughals) should be given access to these things through Home City cards.
Wonders are nice, but I think flooding all Asian civs with them would be boring. Let Islamic civs add something fresh to the game!
BTW. When I was kid, I was sad that only Asian civs could have Wonders and other civs couldn’t…because I’ve always liked beautiful architecture.
It would be cool if each civ could build their own Wonders, but that defeats the purpose. I think it would be best if they never added Wonders to Asian civs so I don’t have to envy city beautifiers.
However, I think a nice addition would be Monuments that could be placed freely with Hero units. These would be rewards for completing all Event Challenges, Art of War Challenges, and for completing Campaigns and Historical Battles. A bit inspired by AoE 4, but I think it would suit AoE 3. Just a beautifier that shows your rivals that you’re not just anyone.
Making them more generic landmarks would do wonders for the wonders. Lots of them have some very obvious replacements.
Still trains Flying Crows and also gains a fireworks stun ability like the Hanover royal house.
Acts as a very strong additional Town Center. There’s usually a shrine at the center of these compounds so they could still have some mystical shenanigans going on.
Generates resources.
Boosts nearby resource collection.
I agree with both replacing wonders with more generic buildings and giving different other Asian civs different age up methods. It’s just hard to think FE cares when there’s still only three civs in the whole region.
Here is a list of Asian civs that could have the Wonders mechanic:
