My concept of Mapuche civilization

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

Mapuche are an american civilization with both light cavalry, eagle warrior and hand cannoneer. Mapuche fought against the incans and the spanish and are renowed for their cavalry and even their arquebuser seized from the spanish. Also they made raid to stole spanish cattle.

I put two unique unit, a footed and a mounted so you can make scenario in the precolombian era disabling the stable.

Civ bonus:
Eagle warrior can evade ranged attack (like the Shrivamsha Rider)
Herdable animals move 25% faster
Wood cutter also produce food (lore : to represent the harvest of the araucaria nut)
Units more resistant to conversion

Team Bonus: Relics generate wood in addition to gold
Lore : The Mapuches build wood totem called Chemamull and Rehue

UU : bolas thrower
A ranged infantry who slow his target
Available at the castle

UU : mounted bolas thrower
A ranged horsemen who slow his target. Parthian tactic apply to mounted bolas thrower
Available at the stable in the castle age (can be upgraded to elite in the imperial age)

UT : Cattle raid : mapuche military unit generate food when fighting. Also a lama appear at every town center (apply also to town center build after this technology was developed)
Lore : to represent their raid against the spanish when then stole cattle.
Available at the castle age

UT : Guerreros de Arauco
Mounted bolas thrower, bolas thrower, light cavalry and eagle warrior gain +1 attack (+3 vs gunpowder unit)
Available at the imperial age

Tech tree

Monastery : They lack : Atonement, Block Printing, illumination, Sanctity, Theocracy,

Blacksmith : They lack : Plate mail armor, Plate barding armor, Ring archer armor

University : They lack : Masonry, Architecture, fortified wall, Heated shoot, keep, bombard tower, siege engineer, arrowslits, treadmill crane

Barrack : They lack : champion
Stable : All light cavalry line, husbandry, bloodline
Archery range : All except elephant archer and cavalry archer. Parthian tactic apply to mounted bolas thrower
Dock : They lack imperial age technology (except : galleon and fast fire ship and dry dock)
Siege Workshop : They lack : Bombard Cannon, siege elephant, heavy onager, siege ram
Castle : They lack : Hoardings

They lack : wall

Mining camp : They lack Gold Shaft Mining and Stone Shaft Mining

2 Likes
2

First, congrats on making a coherent civ concept (but don’t overdo it by dropping a new one every hour - even 1/day from the same person is more than enough). I’ve been ambivalent about adding the Mapuches in the past, but I’ve warmed up to them somewhat. And frankly the (apparent) decision to add Western Rome has more or less shattered my reservations about adding some of the more borderline American civs.

And now all of the mean stuff:

Please no

Please no,
Prior to the new Porto bonus, I thought this was sort of cool (and one of the better “trickle” bonuses), but at this point it’s just becoming a meme.

Depending on how good Bolas throwers are, this could be okay, but for the melee units, this is weak for an Imp UT. As far as the special ability of slowing units down, it straddles the line of what I’d consider too gimmicky. It could work, but it’s easiest to balance on a melee unit, or very short range unit.

I don’t hate this, but you already have a food gen bonus. May I also suggest that the concept of “cattle raiding” would probably be better implemented via attacking or destroying buildings (not walls of course, but particularly farms/mills/TCs).

Beyond that, it’s hard to judge the overall power level of the civ, but if their food-from-wood rate is any good, it will probably make for OP (and very annoying) all-in Eagle Warrior rushes.

3

If this unit is not doing any damage would it be useful?

4

Ridiculously OP. Eagles are cheap on food, can’t be countered by cheap units like spearmen or converted by monks easily and have 3 base p.armor. Just think a little bit about gameplay before trying to fit historical accuracy.

Rest of the tech tree with stable units apart from OP eagles, archer line with thumb ring, wood collection generating food, relic generating wood etc just shows you care ONLY about fitting historical accuracy. Its an RTS game not a history teaching toolkit.

If historically some civilization was very powerful with strong eagles, decent cavalry and a super strong economy, it just doesn’t belong in the game.

5

Wouldn’t the mounted bolas thrower make the foot version useless, especially with the foot version being the one recruited in castle?

6

Eagle warrior can evade ranged attack (like the Shrivamsha Rider)

I don’t think evading ranged attacks with a higher percentage, is a mechanic that should be in the game. Something like 20 evasion of ranged attacks is better. Works like a percentage damage reduction istead of the flat damage reduction of armor.

Giving a evasion ability to a unit with high pierce armor is overkill.

Herdable animals move 25% faster

Why not herdable animals reproduce? If you don’t eat them for 10 minutes you have twice as much. Would be interessting strategy-wise.

UU : bolas thrower
A ranged infantry who slow his target

There are already too much ranged infantry and other ranged meel damage units.

7

Eh, TBH most of this beyond some use of horses and guns (and UU) isn’t very well justified. Aztecs, Mayas and Incas have a lot more justification for powerful military, eco, techs, etc up until the point where Mapuches acquired gunpowder and cav from the Spanish. Not that every bonus needs some amazing historical justification, but units (and especially infantry) dodging bullets matrix-style is probably the biggest stretch when it comes to “historically inspired” bonuses.

1 Like
8

I’m not someoene to give comments on civ concepts in general (unless is a new Germany or Italy split :face_vomiting:) but the mapuche were famous for resisting the Spanish (and the Chileans!); besides the cavalry you mentioned, that wans’t that good, their infantry was REALLY motivated

You’ll find that they stole more than cattle

Unrelated to the civ design, adding the Mapuche would maybe lead to veeeeery controversial scenarios.

9

If you’re referring to some of their more unsavory acts, those were equaled or exceeded by many done by civs already in the game. But the choice is made to not excessively emphasize those things.

1 Like
10

No, no, I mean, as of 2022, there are people who REALLY don’t like the Mapuche. But then, not adding them for that reason would be caving to those people.

11

Any specific reason for this dislike?

12

I don’t think this is the right place to discuss this, but you can PM if you want.

13

I don’t know much history and whether this is justified from the facts he has provided. I only looked at the list of civ bonuses and that eco was ridiculous. The dodge mechanic itself isn’t ridiculous if you’re able to balance it out properly with a high cost, low hp etc. But giving it to a cheap castle age unit like eagles is what makes it ridiculous.

14

A few years ago I left my opinion of my displeasure here, it seems to me that you also wrote in this topic :thinking:

15

I would love to see the Mapuche in AOE2 the same way other popular games added them along with a Lautaro campaign

16

In my case, I would not give them stables or cavalry (they learned horseback riding from the eighteenth century, therefore they would have cavalry, but in AoE 3)…

In my case, the UU would be the Mapuche Ironwood Clubman. It wields a large club that deals area damage. It can be a potent building destroyer if Mapuche Tactics (or “Weychafe” (Guerrilla) is researched.

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In my case it would be:

Castle UT: Weichafe: Melee infantry get +50% siege attack

Imperial UT: Ad-mapu: All units cost -10% gold

Elephant archer in South America?, but there are no elephants in South America…

No, if they are campaigns of the sixteenth or late fifteenth century against the Incas…

1 Like
17

eagle warrior? … i m mapuche mapuche wasnt eagles

1 Like