Tbh I don’t see why it can’t be both: that is, a stealthy heavy infantry with bonuses vs HI and cav, but also Mercs, Heroes, and Vils. They’d just have to be slight numbers to keep things from getting out of hand.
And I don’t think they need to be that toned down compared with JPK. Remember, as an Outlaw they’d be at least 2 pop and their cost would be coin heavy, if not fully coin (but since it’s Africa probably not).
I was thinking JPK were already more than one pop but I guess not. They’re still an age 3 unit so a Leopard Prowler would need to be at least a little bit weaker for age 2. Maybe a bonus versus villagers would be okay, but it could be annoying. It would also be a missed opportunity to not have a partial food cost for a cannibal unit.
A spy outlaw would be interesting but I think a Shifta would be a better candidate for that. They were outlaws and freedom fighters in East Africa. They resisted Italian occupation so a bonus against Mercs like Elmeti and lil’ Bombards would be fitting. A couple emperors also rose from their ranks so a bonus against heroes could also simulate the political intrigue.
Sorry, but unless I’m misunderstanding your link the Shifta seem waaaaaaaaaaaay to recent to include. 1880’s African colonial stuff already bothers me for being far too anachronistic to fit with the rest of this game, but 1960’s stuff is laughably absurd. Even if this were from the 1910’s I’d say it’s too recent.
There are a lot of more recent Shiftas (like from the war in the 1960s) but it’s also much older than the 1880s. Emperor Tewodros II came to power in 1855 and he would have been a Shifta some time before that so they’re at least that old if not much older. Central authority broke down during the Era of Princes in the 1700s so banditry would have probably increased then, and there were likely always bandits in the rugged terrain of East Africa.
Shiftas is already an Ethiopian card that buffs outlaw and villager health so it’s not entirely absent from the game.
Ok thanks for clarifying. If such a unit were to be added, I assume that’s card’s name would have to be changed, but that’s a minor concern.
What kind of weapons did Shiftas use? How would you differentiate them from Leopard Men?
I think the card could be renamed to Shiftinnet which is more the concept rather than a specific individual.
It’s a pretty vague term that just means bandit or rebel so there’s a lot of flexibility with what the unit could be. I think the idea of @Dapsley for an outlaw spy unit would be a good fit for them. The artwork for the card does look like something that would fit that role.
If it’s like a spy it would definitely need to be melee. I think it could be either melee infantry or melee cavalry. Donkeys and mules are a huge deal in Ethiopia so a bandit/spy riding on a mule could be a good way to portray a Shifta outlaw unit.
A mi me gustaría que agregaran a los bandidos coloniales, con sus cascos solacot y sus uniformes de exploradores del siglo XIX estarían bastante guays, además me gustaría que los desarrolladores usaran los ataques cuerpo a cuerpo que tienen los forajidos del wars of liberty, se ve un poco raro que en lugar de sacar un cuchillo o golpear a tus unidades con el rifle te sigan disparando a mele xd
I don’t see why they couldn’t, especially for Rifle Outlaws. It’s pretty straightforward to borrow animations from other units and apply them. This change would look more natural, improve the game-feel, more accurately and clearly convey information to both players, and possibly even make them easier to micro in melee.
Yeah currently all musk type outlaws are bug and do not snare or have melee animations (like Pistolero and Dacoit)
If they’re not snaring, you should report that as a bug in the Report a Bug sub-forum.
I think giving the Pistolero a knife attack and the Dacoit as scimitar or similar sword would be the best solution, but just giving their goofy close ranged firing melee animation a snare would go a long way.
I kinda dislike how they’ve implemented the TWC Outlaws. I know they were designed initially with the idea outlaws would be inaccessible to them, so short of creating a new building (or letting them build the Saloon) the Embassy solution is an ok solution.
However, I think restricting them to the 3 main American Outlaws is kinda lame imo, especially since it’s the “generic” versions. I would prefer theirs be tied to the map like Euro and Asian civs, and leave the fixed outlaw weirdness to Africa, USA, and Mexico. But since the Lakota Outlaw shipments act as upgrades, this probably isn’t happening.
I also dislike that they’re restricted to age 3. My best guess is it’s to prevent spam from Lakota in age 2, but if that’s the case I don’t see why the other 3 can’t have age 2 outlaws. Is it to stop Inca players from mixing in some Outlaws during a native rush? Restricting Outlaws to age 3 is bad because one of the few times Outlaws can really shine is early in age 2 when fights are small and they can more easily swing fights with their statistical edge. The middle of age 3 is when army mass is most important, and pop inefficient Outlaws would be least useful.
well, I guess nobody mentioned here, but with the new European maps came new European outlaws. All 5 bring something interesting to the table although maybe a bit gimmicky, and hopefully people will start to experiment with them more.
The first, and possibly weirdest, is the Inquisitor. The basic description is it’s a combo of a Priest and a Spy, but there’s a lot extra there. It’s basic stats are: for 100c and 4 pop, you get a unit with 150hp, 4.5 speed and 20% melee resist. Their siege attack is 12 with a 1.5 RoF (effectively 24). They attack with a torch, so their melee attack deals siege damage (bypassing units with melee resist) with several multipliers: 2x vs all Cavalry, 1.5 vs vils, 10x vs Mercs, and 10x vs Heroes. They can also stealth and heal at a rate of 4hp/s. Their primary role seems to be as a spy replacement, but their other abilities lend versatility. In particular, I think you could use their stealth ability to effectively raid villagers. I wouldn’t call them anti-cav by any means, but they at least hold up better than you’d expect. Also worth noting, they’re tagged not only as Heavy Infantry and Hand Infantry, but also as Healing Unit. This means they’re affected by the tech Mission Fervor for more speed and hp.
Next is the Highwayman. At first glace, it looks like the Cowboy: ranged cav with a charged long shot. However, the Highwayman can dismount to change from a goon into a musk. For 115c 5 pop both have 155hp, the mounted version has 7.5 speed and 20% melee resist, while the dismounted version 4.25 speed and 20% range resist. The goon’s siege attack is 10, and its ranged attack deals 12 damage at 12 range with 3x vs Heavy Cav, 2.2x vs hand shock inf, 2x vs siege, and .5x vs villagers. The charge attack deals a flat 36 damage at 16 range, so that should do more damage too everything except for heavy cav. The pistolier has 20 siege, 12 ranged attack at 12 range with 1.3 RoF, a melee attack dealing 12 damage 1.5 RoF with 2x vs cav and 1.6 vs shock inf. its charged attack fires 3 shots at 12 damage each for 36 damage total.
Looking at them, I can’t help but think they fall short of their American counterparts. The mounted version is slightly cheaper than a Cowboy/Comanchero but has noticeably less hp and melee resist, while the dismounted version is more expensive, has worse siege and multipliers in hand combat than the Pistolero. Maybe with good management of switching between modes the Highwayman can rise above these deficiencies, but we’ll see.
The Cossack Daredevil arguably does the dismount gimmick better, because the different modes have more differentiated niches: mounted it’s a melee cav while dismounted it’s a musk. For 100c 3 pop, you get a unit with 165hp, 7 speed and 20% range resist mounted, 4.5 speed 20 melee resist dismounted. Both units have a charged ability, but instead of recharging over time it fills with every successful hit. The hand cav deals 15 siege, its melee attack deals 17 damage 1 RoF with 1.25x vs Heavy Cav and 1.15x vs hand shock infantry. The charged attack is a lance strike that deals double damage from 2 extra range and with 3 splash damage. The musk also has 15 siege, its ranged attack deals 22 damage from 12 range at 2 RoF, and its melee attack deals 17 damage at 1 RoF with 2x vs cav and 1.6x vs shock inf. Its charged attack deals 22 damage but at 16 range and has a .5 RoF, meaning you recover from the animation much faster and can quickly attack again. The flavor calls it a knife attack but it still does ranged damage for some reason.
Overall, I feel these compare much more favorably to different units. As a cav unit, the Cossack’s stats are rather lackluster, but it’s also very cheap. The dismounted version is even better, having more hp and damage than a Pistolero even before counting the charged attack. And the ability to switch between a hand cav and a musk means this unit can on the fly flip the counter system around, for example vs skirm.
The next unit is the Hajduk. This is one of the new anti-skirm units added to the game. For 110c 3 pop, you get a unit with 110hp, 4.5 speed and 30% range resist. It has 12 siege, deals 13 ranged attack at 18 range 3 RoF with 1.34x vs HI, 2x vs LI, .75x vs hand shock inf, and .75x vs cav, and it’s melee attack deals 6 damage at 1.5 RoF with the same multipliers. The Hajduk also has the new promotion mechanic. In this case, +15% hp and attack per rank. Compared with the Renegado, it has more speed and slightly more resistance, but less than half the attack (before promotion ofc). It also has the same horrendous firing animation. I’d say it ended up a bit underwhelming.
The last European outlaw is the Crabat. This unit has already caused a bit of a stir, with some quick to call it broken. I agree it’s strong, but I think by taking a closer look it can be put into better perspective. It’s a ranged cavalry with a short range and a potent melee attack. For 150c 4 pop you get 220hp 7 speed 25% range resist. Its siege is 10 with 1.5 RoF, it has 43 ranged attack at 8 range with .5x vs vils, and its melee attack deals 12 damage at 1.5 RoF with 4.5x vs heavy cav and 3.1x vs hand shock inf. It also has a promotion that increases hp by 15% and decreases RoF by 10% (increases firing speed 12.5%) per rank. Unlike units such as the Harquebusier and Oromo, the Crabat isn’t tagged as hand cav or heavy cav only light ranged cav, meaning they’re countered at range by skirmishers but not by dragoons. Clearly, it’s a strong and versatile unit but ranged infantry should so well vs it.
Overall, I think Euro outlaws have a nice variety to them, even if they are centered around showing off new gimmicks for KotM.
The Cossack Daredevil should be the golden standard for outlaws.
Versatile, useful with clear roles, pop heavy at first but accessible with Dance Halls/Atonement (to cost the same as its counterparts), costs gold of course, limited to one building in most cases, relevant as support in late game and it’s strong but not OP.
The other big news recently is the June PUP, wherein several maps have had their outlaws changed. There were quite a few, but the broad strokes are the Wokou Monk has been added to several more maps, and the Desert Raider and Corsair Marksman are made available on a number of maps. This should spice up African maps, which until now have been exclusively Desert Warrior/Desert Archer.
Random thought, but I kinda feel like Mexico should be able to keep making Filibusters after they un-revolt from Baja California. It’s a very niche circumstance, but even so would that be too strong?
lo dudo los ilibusteros son un tipo de forajido bastante barato pero que a largo plazo se queda corto incluso mas que el pistolero o renegado estandar
Perhaps outlaws should function as a “package” of units. Something like the mercenaries from the metropolis or the soldiers from the basilica, but they are obtained almost instantly.
Each pack of outlaws could be a number of individual units, (eg just Comancheros) or mixed.
Once you hire Outlaws, they will take a while to become available again and you will not be able to hire more Outlaws if you still have Outlaws alive.
Outlaws will no longer cost population.
-Banda de pistoleros: Entrega 7 pistoleros
-Banda de Renegados: Entrega 7 Renegados
-Banda de Comancheros: Entrega 7 comancheros
-Pandilla de Hole in the Wall: Entrega 4 Pistoleros, 3 Renegados y 2 Comancheros
-Pandilla de Reno: Entrega 6 pistoleros, 4 Renegados y 4 Comancheros
-Asaltantes del Desierto: Entrega 7 Guerreros del Desierto 4 Arqueros del Desierto y 2 invasores del desierto
Algo así no?
I think they are better off as expensive auxiliary units. They would only cost gold and would not occupy population.
I’m very late to this conversation but I saw someone talking about Asians not getting imperial age mercs and how it shouldn’t be a shadowtech if they get it.
Here to let you know that Africans get shadowtech mercs.
All civs should just get shadowtech mercs. Mercs are completely useless without that the Contractor in Age5 and slightly underpowered compared to regular units if you do take the contractor, with exceptions. Asians can’t use any merc builds for this reason more or less. This should be rectified.
