While you are right that their use comes down to micro and army use, I disagree that knights and crossbow need more upgrades. You essentially only need fletching + bracer and forging/scale barding armor (attack is better here). If Hindustanis go for camels + ghulam, that is a double melee composition which is harder to use than ranged with a meat shield.
Ghulam on the other hand needs both armor upgrades otherwise they are very ineffective against archers. You also need both armor upgrades for camels, because camels are very squishy against ranged units.
Anyway, I agree with you that it comes down to the player (If I understood you correctly). All I wanted to say is that they do have weaknesses and can be countered, hence a winrate similar to Franks, Mayans, etc
First of all, I never mocked anyone. If @BomberGriffin was offended by my post I apologize to them, however I don’t think I said anything harsh.
You on the other hand seem to do it in this post.
Please explain how this is a mistake, both strategies work, one better than the other.
Yes they can. You don’t need fully upgraded cavalry to kill ghulam. And besides, Ethiopians have an excellent UU that can deal with ghulam.
You are clearly very emotional and seem to have difficulties to observe the data. There are multiple sites that state win percentages. There was also a graph that shows wins/losses for TTL. We will see if they are getting nerfed, according to the data that seems unlikely though since Mayans, Chinese, Burgundians haven’t been nerfed and they have the same win percentages. Maybe things aren’t OP just because you lose to it
Some nerfing is a good idea and while we do that, we should give them a buff which is giving them Elephant Archers and most certainly, they can still use both, Cavalry Archers and Elephant Archers but one of them would just have to be in a different slot rather than the same slot and since Hindustanis don’t have Parthian Tactics, they can be having both, Heavy Cavalry Archers and Elite Elephant Archers.
Hindustanis have a rly sick eco bonus BUT their tech tree DEFINITELY needs a nerf too, they can play every unit type right now they even got Champions with Supplies. They probably have the widest tech tree in the game with A TON of key units, including:
Champion (lacking last armor but has supplies and to counter melee infantry units it’s good enough just don’t use it vs ranged and use Ghulam instead)
2nd best Camel in the game (especially in Castle Age, these guys are insane, it turns out they are more resource-efficient than Berbers Camels which leaves Berbers with a very awkward matchup vs Hindustanis, for example)
sick UU (basically it’s a significantly better Eagle Warrior with blast damage but also bonus dmg vs archers, the only thing they miss is bonus vs Monk/Siege but since Hindustanis have good Scout-line who cares). The UU is flat out broken right now and some civs like Britons or Vietnamese or Mayans are left totally powerless vs it because the Ghulam trades evenly vs Militia-line particularly if you lack 1-2 upgrades like Supplies or Blast Furnace.
Bombard Cannon with Siege Engineers and +1 armor (armor actually helps a ton vs stuff like Briton Archers sniping your Bombards etc.
FU Hussar (this is especially important on Arabia where it secures late game)
9 range Handcannoneers with +1 armor (due to how the game works and with a bit of micro, Skirms aren’t a counter anymore unless it’s overwhelming numbers, basically Hindustanis can play like Britons atm, make a big ball of Handcannoneers, make 3 Bombards and just push every Castle as they build their own.
you would think the list of goodies is over but no, they get more, FU heavy CA missing Parthian Tactics, granted it’s “average” but this is a rly nice tech option vs civs that suffer tons from full CA play, such as Bulgarians or Teutons. So even the civs that can, like, go full Halb and outsiege the Hindustanis, not even those are safe cuz heavy CA duh.
you would think the list is over, after a 1:30 hours game you managed to exhaust all gold spots from Hindustanis, now you are ready to flood Hussar into their eco after stone walling your base to prevent him from flooding Hussar. Surprise surprise, the civ gets Halberdiers, they get FU Skirms too so rly good civ in trash wars.
you would think the list is over but no, they get Siege Elephants, which are basically as strong as Siege Rams, as we know Siege Ram is a pretty good unit, very niche but it’s the “usable” ram of the 3.
they also get Redemption and Block Printing (if you are absolutely horrible at the game and at making decisions of what to transition into, no worries Hindustanis got your back you can convert Mangonels in Castle age and Bombard Cannons in Imp.
their defense is “average” I guess with only 6.3k HP Castles (Aztecs cry in 4.8k HP and Vietnamese cry in 5.4k HP) and only Guard towers.
Really it feels the devs forgot to “click” a few icons to disable some techs from this civ.
We should remove something from their tech tree, for example removing last Archer armor would leave them weak to Archer play late game and would make their good Handcannoneers actually have a weakness. They also would have a very average (but usable) heavy CA that you need to transition out of as the game goes on. After all the civ is CAMEL and GUNPOWDER, makes no sense that in 1/2 the matchups they go FU heavy CA cuz it’s so good.
Another alternative would be taking away Halberdier or Siege Engineers from them, they have like the 4th best Bombard Cannon in the game too, actual wtf.
Recently pros realized how good Hindustanis are on Arena and started spamming them on this CLOSED map. It’s unclear still who is better, Burgundians or Hindustanis but it’s really a close thing. Understandably they are insane on Arabia too
It’s common at lower levels yes. No competent arena player would ever use this strat because that’s how you turn the best arena civ into the worst one.
Can’t see Bombard Cannon and Siege Engineers are the identity of Hindustanis. Ofc you can think of this way because they indeed take away the only elephant archer from Indian
I mean, press X to doubt on Turks being “best” Arena cic anyway I worded it poorly. It’s not a “common” strat but it’s a possibility. Pros generally dontl’t go for it because if you scout it, it’s semi-easy to counter. Pressure is on the Turks player to do enough damage with like 10 Handcannons and 2 Bombards. It comes down to micro and the micro is not in the Turks’ favor because opponent can waste more units than Turks.
Anyway Turk HC is a good unit, insta Chemistry helps a ton in building numbers, too.
Well yeah it’s top 3 in most people eyes and if you ask me it’s the best civ. Fair to say something like burgundians bohemians is better though.
Not only pros. I play a lot of arena and I didn’t face that strat in the last year I think.
It’s actually super easy to counter. You usually can tell by the uptime and if you react properly there is no way you lose against fast imp. There is a handful of civs vs which you might have a chance but it’s still better to go for regular strats vs these.
Sure but you still rarely see them as jannis and ca/hussar are usually the better options.
I’m glad we at least agree on something. Even if my ranking far lower than yours.
I not exactly a pro… I am really bad at the game. I like to play non ranked game over ranked, but even I sometimes like to play ranked, where I see Hindustanis can be silly OP.
Imo Ghulams just need their base attack reduced and their bonus vs archers rised equally to compesate. This way still fill the role that supose should fill but become weak vs militia line.
Hindustani should not have any of the late-game Trash Trio (Hussar helbs skirms)
Their Identity is Gold heavy CIV and that should be followed throughout.
Ghulam needs some small debuffs. Downgrade their HP from 65/75 to 60/70 and cut the bonus damage against archers from 5/6 to 4.
You may say that UU should better than Eagle Warrior which is a Barracks unit. However Hindustanis already has almost the best Camel and one of the best Hand Cannoneer in the game. ghulam should have a greater weakness on swordsman
For a fast moving small size unit like ghulam or eagle, stand ground patrol trick works very well. If you don’t micro and let them auto fight, it just like playing crossbow without micro and let them eaten by knight
