‘Noo then they’re the same as Eagle Warriors!!!’
I’d be fine with the thrust attack being the main identifier of the unit, not it’s Huskarl-like anti-Archer identity. The unit already is Huskarl, with some new dressing to make it feel different. It isn’t.
Lower the PA, can also remove the anti-Archer bonus, and maybe instead make the thrust ability more powerful as the unit’s identifying trait, so it actually stands alone without comparison to other units.
My idea is Nerf Ghulam.
HP reduced 65,75 → 60,65
Attack bonus vs archer reduced 5,6 → 3,5
Eagle Warriors are a generic unit, and without the trust theres literally anything interesting. A UU who is just a more interesting version of an existing UU is lame, but a UU which is just a more interesting of a generic unit is fine (also eagles have bonus vs monks, siege and cav anyway)
The unit ia supposed to fill a role in the Hindustani army as the anti archer specialist. An strong melee power unit would fit sonewhere else better imo
What about lowernig their mele armor to -1 so they are worse against longswords and knights?
Still think they need to lose siege engineers and halberdier. That way they will have a clear weakness to siege. If they keep halbs they need to lose siege engineers at the very least. That will give them a good weakness to siege. But they still have hussars.
That way you’d nerf their gunpowder options which the civ is supposed to excel at. If you want to nerf their siege options why not remove the siege elephant from their tech tree instead? I mean Indians didn’t have siege ram before and now they got that incredibly strong siege elephant unit. This way they’d be left with armored elephant in imp so while that still might be a good option in late castle age, hindustanis probably won’t use them in imp but rely solely on trebs and bbc.
Look man, I don’t want to be mean or condescending, you clearly think they are too strong and that is fine.
However win percentages and tournament results simply show that they are not. They are a very good civ and they are about as good as the other very good civs.
They might be “hard” to beat, but only if you don’t know how to do it. That is the same for every civ though. I for example have no idea how to beat all in organ guns on arena. That doesn’t mean that strategy is overpowered though, just that I lack the understanding of the game.
Hindustanis already have a clear weakness, which is knights and crossbows, a very common composition in team games. Judging from your previous posts you enjoy late game michi games a lot. In those cases almost every late game civ is “overpowered”, because you can easily use all of their strengths.
Apart from that knights and crossbows is also pretty easy to do in 1v1 games, which gives Hindustanis a hard time.
They simply do not need a nerf right now, they have clear strengths (just like Mayans and Chinese) and also have counter play. You just need to adapt to their civ bonuses, and cannot use regular heuristics that you use with e.g. Franks or Britons
But if you’re talking about teamgames, you also have an ally. In 1v1s, you also have two extremely good specialists to counter Knights and Crossbows, the only problem is one being locked behind Castles (but create fairly fast and are very strong even in low numbers).
And I will ask you, how you think that losing SE will make them weak vs siege? SE is far less relevant when facing other siege because bombard cannons already outrange other siege units.
Yes after Hindustanis receive Siege Elephant, they should take away Bombard Cannon and Siege Engineers.
One one which dies hard to archers (24 hits vs 40 hits for knights) and the other needs a castle that kills your economy. Ghulam die hard against knights and camels die hard against archers.
Ghulam trains in 12 seconds, equal to or slower than most infantry UU, while also being one of the more expensive ones. They train as fast as triple barracks eagles btw.
They need full upgrades to be viable in castle age (meaning both armors, squires → 400F 100g) and you need to invest villager seconds into collecting at least 450 stone. With all that res you should be able to invest into suitable counters I think
I encourage you to go double gold next time you face Hindustani and see for yourself 
They are supposed to be a gunpowder civ. They must need BBC for that.
That’s a good idea. Goes back to Capped Ram and replace CA with useless EA.
I think the Armored elephant isn’t what makes Hindustani too strong tbh
It’s not in isolation but I guess the sheer amount of late game options is what makes them so good. And imo it’s better to take something away from these than heavily nerfing their options like camels or ghulam which need to be good in order to make up for the lack of knights.
Yeah but similarly you go for a comp that dies against Camels and the other that dies against Ghulams. It moreso comes down to micro and army use. Hindustani camels are no joke with the attack speed buff too. The only difference is that Ghulams require a castle.
Either way Hindustani is going to make a less gold intensive army, as Knights + Crossbows are more expensive (and require more upgrades) than Camels + Ghulams. If you make Crossbows without upgrades (Fletching + Bodkin + Crossbow + Thumb Ring + Ballistics) then Camels will simply eat them up either way. Ghulams only need armor upgrades (and maybe not as important even, with their high PA baseline anyway).
That less gold intensive army can also mean you put some villagers on Stone to get a Castle up.
Then just take away bracer I guess? It will nerf by a lot the archery range options and pushing more to Hand Cannoneers, and making them overall weaker in trash wars, also, giving some weakness when it comes to building defenses and navy.
Or maybe take away Plate Barding Armor and have +PA per age after castle age just like what they did before. Their calvary will be qutie good in castle and not super strong (but still strong) in late game, due to the team bonus for Hussar and their Imperial Camel Rider
How about in Arena? Old Indians used to be pretty weak in Arena. New Hindustanis is opposite. Better BBC, Siege Ele and Ghulam all contributed to that. I agree that Siege Ele’s contribution is the least among these 3, but it is still something to consider.
Yes but not Siege Elephant. They are extra ordinary compared to Capped Ram.
I liked this. Honestly other than nerfing Ghulam, I don’t think any other unit or bonus need to be nerfed. Ghulam nerf and maybe some tech tree nerf - Bringing old ram, adding EA, removing Bracer.
No. Not even close. I knew you would make a mistake. The same as when you said counter with LS or use knights and xbow
Low food cost makes ghulam extremely attainable in castle age relative to the high food cost UU we almost never see. You mock someone for thinking games revolve around imperial age and then you make this mistake?
LS is a terrible counter. Hindus get TR xbow and semi FU CA.
You think a castle is a big investment(serves dual purpose) let us know how “cheap” LS are…(I’ll give you a hint, you’re already paying 500 Res just to tech into LS +supplies, nevermind anything else)
How many civs have a poor knight line? Ethiopians should counter Hindus with knights? And when we get to imperial age? Drav and Bengalis should use knights? Don’t make me laugh
Really? You really think their WR on the ladder is fine?
I’m sorry to let you down, you’re likely a Hindu fanboi, Hindus are getting nerfed. There’s no doubt about it.
What is this forum smoking??? Spanish have existed for decades
Hindus already get a civ bonus and extremely good UT for GP. Nevermind lacking SE has the smallest effect on GP options.
Nevermind that, what identity is a camel + GP civ that happens to also have great HCA , FU siege elephant and a better counter to archers than huskarls?
Thinking more about ghulam being less generalists adjust the following:
Damage from 8 to 6 (29% dmg nerf Vs anything with 1MA)
Training time from 12 to 15.
Adjusting hp or PA might hurt them too much in their intended role.