Eh considering how good Byzantines are doing, leave them alone. They arent even that bad on TGs unlike something like Incas and they already have the widest tech tree in the game
And yeah its a pretty big advantage. Berbers get only 15% by that time and unlike Byz knights amd camels its what they do 90% of the time
Something that got added in the forgotten.
Something historically accurate and in the game since AOK.
Franks will literally not have a single fully upgraded unit besides paladin. Not a single trash one too, more importantly.
Oh itâs you again. Yeah, wonât happen.
For what reason balance wise?
I dont even see how this helps rhem in anything other than team gamesâŠand even thenâŠwhy?
Well you see the castle bonus was here right from the release of AoK while the berry bonus is an African Kingdoms addition, so the âiconicâ argument would be better of used for the oldest bonus.
Also no one ever deemed the castle bonus as âOPâ before the Franks were buffed, or even winrate charts appeared for this matter.
Itâs already one of the few infantry units that cost gold which doesnât have any base pierce armour.
Besides the obvious laming implications, the Goths would have 100% efficient meat collection, with the least amount of rotting possible and no need to force drop ever. That would be madness.
Fun fact: I actually had this idea a loooong while ago, but people disagreed because it doesnât do much to help the civ when it needs it and players donât pick Goths to play cav anyway. Even in a team game where you could potentially afford both paladins and Goth spam, you would be better of having a player dedicated to producing FU paladins and the Goth player dedicated to infantry.
This change would at least open the way to make serjeants better. I think the ability of serjeants to build donjons could be unlocked for free upon reaching castle age, and have the UT do something else, maybe improve donjon working speed? Also they really should make treadmill crane affect serjeants.
Even there it doesnât help them, why would I make generic paladins without the last armor when I can tech into huskarls AND champions for the same price and those cost 35% less and do the same job and are produced like 2.5x faster and are a composition to begin with.
My bad, even less iconic then lmao.
That works too. I think the 50% bonus damage reduction can be moved to First Crusade in that case. For the missing civ bonus they can finally get an infantry bonus which @AbledManatee867 is crying for a year. (Definitely not extra HP for militia line that he wants. Free infantry armor can be an option.)
So you want to lock the identity of the civ behind a unique tech? Seriously?
I want that dumb 50 % bonus damage reduction to be gone.
Itâs not identity, itâs bs. The whole game is designed around unit counters and some geniusses just decided to remove that for one single civ. Thatâs just nonsense.
Actually I am.
All of their bonuses seem identity to me - Donjon, Feudal UU, having the option of Donjon - Serjeant - Donjon chain reaction strategy, extra stone into fastest castle drop, highest food on farms, all of them.
I wonât mind but surely a big portion of the community will.
I think the percentage value is just too big that it makes so annoying. Having 25% or 33% of this bonus or even 50% for just one particular armor class (only cavalry so at least skirmisher vs skirmisher fight is normal) would be okay.
50% to 40% means that it take 20% more bonus attack from counter units (50% to 60% is +20%). Pikeman kill Sicilians Knight in 10 hits, after this nerf, it kill in 8 hits which is drastic change. My change give versality rather than instant huge buff because Sicilians has weak eco, if Sicilians go feudal age LS and Castle Age THS, Sicilians has hard time to switch into Knight due to Knights has no common upgrade with infantries except blacksmith attack upgrade of course. My last nerf is Castle and TC build 50% faster instead of old OP 100% faster. Last state:
Sicilians
Nerfs:
Buffs:
Totally Agree. I always supported to change the bonus to âreceive -25 % bonus damage and deal +25 % bonus damageâ. That would make much more sense.
Wouldnât make a big difference imo.
These are actually very serious nerfs and would need heavy compensation.
Eagles in General could have a little nerf I believe, like a small cost adjustment. Something like 25 food instead of 20 food. Ofc in compensation Incas could get a small eco buff like the one you propose or a second extra lama maybe.
There are so many options - faster firing skirmishers, skirmishers +1/+2 attack in castle/imp, skirmishers +25% bonus damage. But devs just decided not to give them conventional way to counter archers.
Too huge for all units. Bohemians got only for spearman line and it is a decent bonus. If anything Burmese should get it for their skirmishers, not Sicilians.
For those wondering Goth paladin is to help them out vs Aztec, Japanese, Teutons, Turks, slavs and other tough matchups. Infantry spam by itself is not OP and these civs have good answers to Goth infantry spam. Aone would say too good. I mean vs Teutons I would get Goth Cav archers thatâs how bad the infantry loses
Do I like it? Absolutely not. But you cant remove it or delay it. You can reduce it, but thats it.
It is their identity lol. Without it the civ is nothing outside of some lame arena strats.
Just reduce it to 33%. Tbh the oposite bonus (all units deal bonus damage) seems way more interesting but whatever.
Those are all lame bonuses (particularly the farming bonus) that require an strong eco or military bonus to be viable and honestlt the faster castle bonus is as obnoxious as the bonus damage reduction. The Donjon is a gimmick too.
Sicilians are fine. Halberds are still cost effective vs their Cavaliers. Same for skirms vs archers. Only thing this 50% damage really messes up is cav vs camels.
Camels lose hard. Unless its imperial camel. Kinda historically accurate too since the sicilian Normans whooped the Muslim camel civs in the first crusade
As long as you remember camels are a no go vs sicilians you will be fine
Turk and Teuton got extra armor. Turks mining gold faster, Teuton got farm bonus
Cuman scout is faster
Mayan got 2 bonus, cheaper archer and longer resources. You already mentioned the nerf of both of them.
Eagles are not cheap, they cant beat paladin with the same gold cost, how come the upgrade can be more expensive ?
As a castle unit, cataphracts got countered by both archer and cavalry, and it does not counter pike line well due to the high gold cost. The weak attack could not take out TC and production buildings so it need a buff over all.
Byzantines camel with bloodline will beat Berber camel and Byzantines also got paladin. Berber can be deleted if Byzantines will have bloodline.
Other civ need to make TC first then make villagers
Portuguese can drop feitoria as 10 (20) population which means Portuguese can max out their population 2 or 3 times faster than other civs
But not pop effective, especially in imperial age (Takes 7 hits from halbs to die lol), and cavaliers have mobility to run out of halbs and raid you to death.
Teutons bonus doesnât kick in until castle.
Turks faster gold mining isnât going to help scouts
Cumans Iâll give you.
Well, tbf Paladins also shred single Halbs to pieces. An advantage of the sic cavalier is for sure the long time it needs to be killed, giving the player more time to react. But in terms of Performance vs Halbs Paladins are actually comparable to the sic Cavaliers if you only look at the result.
