At least you two should learn how to show the reason rather than just saying they are fine or turn back aoe2.
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So may I humbly ask you to address this point then? Itās not a side argument or a minor point and YOU STARTED IT:
- Why 10 posts is the number to justify a complaint?
- How many balance change/QoL change/graphics improvements/optimizations are done because there are more than 10 posts complaining on this forum?
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How ignorant you are. I have done that more than twice epxlaining to you why shrines arent OP. I am not going to type entire paragraphs again for you when you keep stating the same. If you want to read it you can look at my previous replies to those topics.
I already answered this, try to read what people actually reply.
Most balance changes are based on in game data, they read the forums, most likely when they see people complain they look at it in game first to see if they agree. And again, this is not what the argument was about.
To say a lot of people complain is simply false. A lot of people is a lot of people not less then 1%.
Ill answer if you reply to you tomorrow as I am now hopping offline.
No you didnāt prove why 10 is the right number. Why not 5?
BTW, letās not forget it was YOU who started rejecting the speed nerf because you only saw I complaining about it.
Letās first pretend there is a real logic relationship between them.
I do not need to prove there are A LOT OF people to prove you wrong. I only need to prove ONE and I found quite a few.
So you still failed to reply how many of them are based on MORE THAN 10 COMPLAINTS. And thatās also your responsibility because you said you need MORE THAN 10 COMPLAINTS to justify a nerf or change.
According to your own logic, if you keep avoiding that, it means you eat your own words, or it naturally proves my points, or:
BTW, in case people read what I said as āJapan op nerf Japanā again:
I rarely say Japan is op. I said some of their mechanics were broken, their potential is too great, they are too forgiving for mistakes, and they are very annoying to play against. Sweden is more op. Portugal is currently op. Brits have better booming. Spain ALSO has military buffs. Inca ALSO has economical buildings. Many other civ ALSO have musketeers and economic bonuses. Their units can STILL be countered and killed. So Japan is not op.
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Yeah, I think the reason Japan was not nerfed even after all the posts, itās because according to the data Japan must be below 50% WR, itās the only explanation.
I just wish they made this kind of data public, it would put a break into the complaints I think.
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I only remember your suggestion is to kill all herds around Japan opponentās at the beginning that claims shrines are fine.
But I still canāt see any prove.
I am interested in Sweden and Japan use percentage and winrate for each level in 4v4 team game.
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Yeah saying Ashi speed at 4.5 is ok because they donāt have military drummers is way off base. The percentage of games in which a Euro civ actually sends Advanced arsenal and military drummers is extremely small, and even when they do, a card and paid research upgrade is a huge cost. Also, Ahsi speed gets buffed by Golden Pav, as mentioned by luciofrancosi. Regardless, Japan just starts with this and gets to play all of Age 2 with a unit that is extremely hard to trap and punish. Japan just feels super forgiving and the Japanese player can get away with stupid attacks and escape opponentsā flanking with ease. The end result is that Japan saves a few ashi every engagement, where a Euro civ would lose much more musk. From the Euro player perspective, it is extremely frustrating when you successfully flank an army of ashi with superior numbers in what would be a game ending battle, but ashi just walk away with reduced losses. I think Japanese players tend to underestimate how often this happens because they are so used to ashi speed being the default.
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Thatās why I donāt think speed from 4.5 to 4.25 can get rid of this situation and I prefer 4.
Ashiās speed has been an issue since at least 2011, when I started playing. I learned early on from my higher elo friends that Ashi were broken because their speed lets them get away with way more than a normal musketeer should be able to.
And Japanese still get Military Drummers from the Golden Pavilion.
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We got to remember the fact that Ashigaru are the most expensive musketeer on the game and also have the worst melee attack between musketeer units, making them very fragile against melee units and particularly strong cavalry.
(I believe that they are the only musketeer in the game that loses on a fight to a Hussar, but donāt quote me on that since Iām not 100% if there are others)
Being faster is what compensates for those deficiencies and make the unit unique.
We cannot just look at some random bonus that Japan have and say that is too much, without considering the whole context that this particular bonus is inserted on. Thatās not how a asymmetric balance works.
Also, the Golden Pavillion bonus is rarely set to speed. The vast majority of the times is set on the 10% HP, and sometimes on the 15% Ranged Attack (Yumi + Yabusami compositions, for example).
Japan has a card to increase dmg to cav in age 3, it also gives them extra hp.
I think they do if you send no cards, have no daimyo, and donāt have Japanese consulate.
Well when we look at the civ as a whole they have probably the best overall unit roster of every civ in the game, and strong economy too, so we can look at the civ as a whole and come to the same conclusion.
Crazy to think that japan has something better than 4.5 speed base stat musk with potential for even more speed, but thatās just how strong the civ is.
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Well, again, we cannot just look at random bonus that they have without considering the whole context that is inserted on.
If they Japan had the time to send the card for melee attack from the Ashigaru, the other civilization probably had the time to send a card themselves. (Letās say some sort of Cav. Combat, to balance things)
Also the fact that Japan need to send a card to compensate for a deficiency on their Musketeer, while other civilizations donāt need to send this type of card at all because their musketeers have more melee attack than Ashigaru by default is a problem, specially considering the fact that Japan already would need to waste another card on cherry orchards, have some shipments that is worth less resources, and are a heavy wood consumers that rarely can context trade lines because of it, and generally would send less cards that civilizations that are capable of taking the trading line.
Same could be said towards the Daymio. Is a card that the Japanese player would have to expend, while other civilizations can expend on something else.
I do think that a individual Hussar still kills a individual Ashigaru even with the Isolation consulate bonus. (That by the way, if you choose him, you donāt get cheaper shrines from the Portuguese consulate as well, and the fact that you collect food in a slower pace than other civilizations due to the fact that you need to be on berries, might came in to bite you if you donāt build enough shrines).
But thanks for calling me out on saying that Ashigaru individually loses to a individual Hussar without concrete evidence. I should make more tests on the scenario editor before commenting on the forum.
But do they?
Yumi and Yabusami are quite good units indeed. But how about the other units?
I donāt think Samurais, Naginata, Flaming Arrows, Morutarus and even Ashigaru for that matter are stupendous units. Ok, they have somewhat of interesting unique characteristics of their own, and can be very helpful in some situations. But I donāt think that their units selection are that great.
And again, we cannot just focus on the fact that Ashigaru have 4.5 speed without considering that they are the most expensive musketeer in the game and have a weaker melee attack. The unit have a whole context on them.
By that logic I could say that Rajputs are super overpowered, since they have 5.5 speed. But this is a oversimplification of things.
Because you dont care about what others say. The first time I posted that it was on itself in a longer post than just being able to kill their hunts.
You asked this, this was my answer:
Doesnt really matter if its 10 or 5 in both cases it doesnt change the outcome of simply not beeing a lot of people.
I said I mostly see you, try to atleast read what people say okay? There is a difference between only and mostly.
So you think one person complaining is a lot of people? What are you trying to prove? Do you know what the argument was between me and firstaim before you joined it? Firstaim says a lot of people complain on the forums about these. Among which the speed. Now I asked this about 3 times, do you think 10 or 20 is a lot of people compared to the rest of the player base? It isnt about if others complained about it. It is about if it are a lot of people.
Handy tip: know what the argument is about before joining in. Refering to what I wrote above this. I asked for 10, because again, which I also stated already, even if you could get that amount it isnt a lot of people.
Yes because 10% more speed on one unit is so broken. Or a shrine building which is worse then 1 settler or villager.
They dont get military drummers from Golden Pavilion. They get flintlock, Paper cartridges, Pillage and professional gunners
Advanced arsenal has multiple upgrades which are really usefull, rhe main one being the counter rifling which adds 1 modifier to the anti heavy infantry for skirmishers.
A ~10% speed increase for 1 unit isnt really that much, they pay extra to get that and even if they can get more of them away in a fight its not like they killed much of your army. Avoiding isnt killing. If you actually flanked them with a counter unit like skirmishers they will still be able to kill a lot assuming with flanking you also have a small force engaging from another side otherwise I dont really see the use it flanking except when dealing with units like artillery.
If that would be game ending you would already be in the lead. You say you flanked so I assume you cut them off from retreating to their own base? Then they cant really run away except towards your base and you just follow untill they are trapped. If you mean with larger numers that you use musks yourself then any other civ with musks would also be able to just walk away as the speed is the same, Japan musks are just 10% faster in that regard.
Find a thread where I said there is A LOT OF people. YOU were the one trying to reject a suggestion because there werenāt A LOT OF people complaining not me.
I do not need to find that lot of people to nullify your argument because you even failed to prove why you need A LOT OF people (which means 10 posts). Your failure to respond to that automatically proves what I said.
Then address THIS (which you ACCIDENTALLY missed again):
Because that is YOUR core argument from the beginning: the change is not justified if there is not A LOT OF PEOPLE complaining (which means 10 posts)
Now tell me, WHICH CHANGE WAS MADE BECAUSE THERE ARE 10 POSTS COMPLAINING?
DO NOT AVOID THIS, OR:
Fun fact: counter infantry rifling does not require advanced arsenal.
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The AOE3 Japan dilemma:
- Claiming {Fill in any bonus Japan has} is not useful/rarely used in real game at all.
- Getting raged every time someone tries to touch it.
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You guys sure work hard at this