Siege Elephant has the function of anti-artillery and mortar, although damage to buildings is good, its range is very low for both functions. Conventional anti-artillery such as Culverin has 34 range, the Siege elephant has only 30, compared to the mortar range the range is even more unfair. The siege elephant’s bonus to artillery is 2.5 while Culverin’s is 4. The lowest damage is compensated by the higher life, but nothing compensates for the shorter range.
I believe the range should rise to 36 or 37.
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No way. Indians are OP as it is, not only their game plan can make them gain total map control but if sent properly elephants might not even have a decent counter (and i know that kight infantry can counter it, but it needs to be en masse, and it will have to deal with the Gurkas Sowars and the dreaded urumi (urumi basically beats everything)
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100% agree, india doesn’t need any more buffs.
The civ is already ridiculously strong overall.
Siege elephants are already considerably cheaper than on legacy and they cant be killed by culverins as they ate classed as ranged cavalry
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I rather think that there are too many types of cannons in Europe.
Culverine can only deal with artillery and are of no use to other units, even they have incapable siege damage.
Culverine must be given a usable siege damage.
That would make the unit broken.
Out of all canons, culvs are the ones with the highest range, their speciality is to neutralize artillery, if you add siege to it, it might be too much as there is nothing to counter them.
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Useful damage is enough
It should be at least 80 damage, slightly less than the Falconet.
Training Culverine in the first place is to counter the opponent’s artillery, and having a large number of Culverine wastes the pops and makes it impossible to deal with the opposing infantry.
Indian elephants have stronger melee resistance and are not as fragile as European artillery.
Don’t even forget it has the best mobility as single-mode artillery!
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You dont even need too many culverins, 2 is enough as you simply don’t have time to micro every single culv on one falc.
Even if they do 80 damage to the building, I don’t think only two Culverins can destroy all the buildings.
I mean for falconets, or 3 for heavy canons. You don’t need more than that. Also the unit does not become redundant as it discourages the oponent from using artillery.
If you look at japan for example, 2 culvs completely shut down their flaming arrows and then they have nothing to counter your artiller
India is know for their struggling to deal with HC in age 4. 36 range is probably to big but maybe 32 like light canon can be a good option
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Worst suggestion you could think of. Culverin are already a game- deciding unit. Culverins have same range as hand mortars but Hand mortars only have 100 HP and can easily be sniped. Because of this China opponents can get rid of long-range anti artillery easy and use artillery themselves.
However, no one made a post about hand mortars even though they are bad for their cost of 90 wood . Probably because no one is playing China anyway because its a terrible civ compared to India or Japan.
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It’s odd to argue that Culverine should be useless just because the hand mortar is weak.
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Despite all the arguments of everyone ! I still agree to the fact that Range is an advantage that cant be substituted!
If you go by the
Max Achievable Range of a Civ (with ANY unit):
India is at the bottom! with Siege ele Being a 30 range Unit that too in age 4! n second highest ranged unit is Gurkha in age 4 at 21
IMO I would trade the population buff to more range of siege ele ANYDAY!
While Other Asian/Europeon Civs have cannons/Mortars/other units that have more range and in case of asians they are considerably cheaper, Seige ele dont have either of those advantage!
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Im a fan of Siege ele as it is, but my point being for the new update is:
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- What use is of a Culv+Mortar with 28-30 range, that can move fast? hit n run, with a such expensive unit with RIDICULOUS 6 second reload time (that reduces the effectiveness of high siege damage! coz it will Still take 12 seconds for 5 seige ele to destroy a building, n that is not a competitive time with such short range)*** ?
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- If any other civs Mortar or culvs range is reduced to 28-30 would anyone use or able to use them as much as now ? Probably not? Coz advantage of range, don’t have a substitute!!!
Wouldn't it be wayyy better they given 2 or 4 more range, rather than 1 less pop.
- If any other civs Mortar or culvs range is reduced to 28-30 would anyone use or able to use them as much as now ? Probably not? Coz advantage of range, don’t have a substitute!!!
India at the botton??
Siege elephants are fine, they are already cheaper than they where before.
Plus they can’t be countered by culverins because they have are tagged as light ranged cavalry, the only way to counter that unit is with skirms and good luck getting to these guys behind a massive mass of sepoy, gurkha, urumi and all the bs stuff india gets.
On top of that they can hit and run with no problem, so with good micro you shouldn’t loose your siege elephants.
So giving them another buff is a big no.
India already had many unnecessary buffs like improving their crate shipments, a unit with a culv ranged that is so mobile and can kite your canons will just make that civ even more broken
2 Likes
READ! I SAID by overall range they are at bottom:
Crates are not buff ! they are now normal as they should’ve been like most civs who have 2 gold shipments, unlike India which had and still have only 1 shipment in age2, just been provided the bigger crate of 700 rather than the smaller one of 600
These are ALL countred by a simple falc or horseArtillery.
Siege ele deserve a 32 range ATLEAST! rather than pop decrease! They are mobile! but if you cover ur culv/cannon with halb etc! ur 28-30 ranged siege ele are less favourable and easier to kill. But on the other side ! if he cannons/culv survive ! they will kill the sepoy+gurkha+urumi ! U have to keep in mind that India DOESNT have a true cannon! so a 7-6pop, 32ranged, expensive, 6sec reload time and mobile siege ele, is better than a 5pop marginally cheaper 30 ranged one.
And they are countered by a simple siege elephant or a mahout.
Idk if you know, siege elephants have the highest HP for an artillery in the game and it compensates the weaker attack. They have have a rate of fire 5.5, which is slightly lesser than a culverin which is 6. This is because they’re very mobile, much similar to how culverins have a better turn rate.
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It doesn’t have the resist as of any canonn that usually is 75% while siege is only 30%
It cant be count as compensation
Nope ! they have 6 sec rate of fire just as culv ! but 6 less range(non-imperial), n 4 less range(when imperial)
I mean, lol that’s actually decent for an artillery with really high HP.
28 range isn’t that low, that’s +2 range higher than falconets and horse artillery and culverins do half their damage to them due to the light cav tag. Tbh, India doesn’t even need artillery until age 3, since most of their units are individually strong. If they ever needed any buff to any of their units, that would be only flail elephants.
Ah, my bad… I thought it was 5.5.