Nerf a japon

The Iroquois will not be so strong, the farms are very slow, the trees will run out anyway sooner or later especially if they are needed by your allies you are very dependent on wood for many units which collect more slowly than other resources and you will have to use them to make buildings, not you have factories and you have very few upgrades for the economy and you don’t have sharply strong artillery, you will also need to have some settlers on the bonfire to get bonuses. Basically if I had to play treaty I would choose another civilization.
Now let’s stay on the Japanese theme.

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Ah the cycle of OP civs has returned

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They are one of the strongest in treaty with cow boom, 120 villagers, fur trade and 3 pop canons plus pop limit of 230.

Devs solved the wood issue by ecologism to multiplicate their trees’ longevity x6. Anyways not needed since treaty maps got more trees for this civs.

Why would it never be nerfed by dev if it is that strong ? They should try to nerf every OP civ…

If you lose every single ranked game against japan, it is on you, the japanese main should gain ELO and face better player they will have 50% of chances to win, right ?

I don’t play much japan or british so don’t know what you’d be doing wrong. Your strategy sounds fine…

Cannot reply because the translator is bad

Translation is bad too, it is hard to understand.

  • I checked ingame yesterday, japanese berry gather rate is nit higher than other civ.
  • I listed other civs not to say they are OP, but because they are the only civs I know with gather bonus
  • thanks to bank dutch military do not feel to intensive on gold, at least not as much as germans

5000f by itself is a lot. It is not much when considering it is all you have on the map before switching to rice paddies. And if rice paddies are that good that early, then india and china would be problematic civs just like japan. I do think these 3 civs are strong in supremacy, but if we got 7 OP civs, these civs are not OP anymore.

Start a game with Japan and look at the gather rate of berries foragers. you will see 0.67. I can make a screenshot if you want. It would be definite proof as there is no way to decrease gather rates (exceot for portuguese).

Same for Japan and every civ. Destroy military buildings and the opponent cannot make military (bad translator again ?)

Yeah, Dutch consulate is very strong with a bank and the livestock pen. Japan can also increase shrine gather rate by 300% or so, to compensate for not having factories. Both in age 4 though, by that time supremacy games should be more or less decided.

You dont need max efficiency in supremacy. The church card and the age 4 card are often enough, you get 7 banks. In age 3, the 22 Japanese shrines are worth ~9.5 c/s, which is like 3.5 banks.

It only gets tricky in age 4, as the shrines give ~16.5c/s to the japan player. You have to spend 2 cards for factories, while being down 20 to 25 villagers. 22 shrines with 4 deers are like 6 banks (5 with tulip speculation card, but you can skip it if you need space in you deck). 2 upgraded factories + 1 bank (out of 7) you get 17.25c/s, which is similar to the 20 to 25 extra villagers the japanese player has. And you only used 1 more card: II) church + IV) 2 factories vs I)heavenly kami + II) orchid berries, and you didnt spend 2000f to 2500f to train 20 to 25 villagers (to balance for sending one card less)

So yeah, japan eco is very strong mid to late game, and is clearly a strong civ (along with other civs like india, china, british, and the flavors of the moments) but you do not have to use every eco card to match it. If you use more card, it us because you want a nore late gane deck and neglect the mid game cards. And this is when looking at dutch, who are usually rated below average on tier lists.

And again: you should not send the company’s card, it is not good enough.

I think the shrines are not the only think making japan strong. Military is very strong as well.

I don’t know much about these 2 cards. Whenever I try to make a japan deck, I end up not picking them, as I rather take army/military upgrades/crates. So I really don’t know how good they are in supremacy.

Anyways, I will leave this topic because:

  • it is very hard to get what you mean from the translator
  • it sound more like a rant than a theorycrafting about possible balance changes
  • in the end I do not really care whether or not japan get a nerf. I rarely play with them or againat them. I was only interested why suddently people talk about japan being OP, which wasnt the case recently (ex july 2022: Let's discuss the civ strength rankings and november 2021: Current civ tier list - ESOCommunity)

People talk about it on and off for 15 years. Only nothing ever changes so it pretty much isn’t worth the effort.

Japan has a built in advantage in almost every category.

The most grating is the virtual 100% vil efficiency. They go half the game before they have to move any vils around far enough to tick the idle vil graph even a little bit.

At the same time they don’t move those vils they attain wide LOS advantages and tie up the hunts with the shrines.

It’s absurd really.


I just want to know why Japan is allowed to have mobile shipment points but Inca isn’t.


This is where you lose. Pikemen + longbow is extremely wood intensive, so you don’t have enough wood to do your boom, or you need to invest shipments into wood.

What you should do is focus on muskets and hussars instead. Or go to age3 for a 2 falc timing and completely ignore japan in age2 other than just self defense. The british boom is superior to Japan in the very onset of age 2.

Ay heart, brits are a boom civilisation, tryint to be aggresive in age 2 and competing on the very resources that allow you to boom is not goint to end up well for you.

False. Japan may have 2 guys, but those 2 guys are combat effective as a single euro explorer. They can’t really take a 4 guardian treasure on their own.

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You can’t siege blocked hunts fast enough on most of the new maps with musketeers, hussars are way too expensive and completely useless against Japan musketeers who shred them. By the way, making musketeers and trying to fight off Japan is useless because a handful of archers will shred them alongside Japan musketeers, who by the way are the best in the game for some reason?

you have to send all musk improvement + arsenal improvements for British muskets to compete with japanese ones. They literally do more damage, have more health, fire faster, and run faster


If Japan shrines my hunts I generally take 5 pikes or musketeers to siege them down. If for some reason you can’t spare the units, you could consider getting blunderbuss and sieging down the shrines with villagers. In a recent update villagers’ siege attack got a 3x multiplier against shrines (it probably should show up on the UI but it doesn’t) Villagers with blunderbuss have the same siege damage to shrines as a vet musketeer. Of course it would be better to siege with units to not waste villager seconds but it is an option.

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Don’t try to compete with them in age 2. Go to age3 and use cannons. Japan can’t easily counter musket + falconet. Yes they do have yabasume but they are expensive.

I have tried FF into falcs, even if I can make 8 falcs and a force to defend them, they will eventually kill them by making Flaming Arrows with longer range or Yabusame - even if you try to micro them the Limber + unlimber will get them killed vs. Flaming arrows which DO NOT HAVE TO LIMBER OR UNLIMBER lol


If they make flaming arrows you make culverins.
Also FA don’t have a multiplier against artillery in age3.

Imagine not having proper artillery…

Yeah, like Lakota, i wonder the they deal with japan.

lakota can take map control much more easily so they often can play contain against japan

I was obviously being sarcastic, Lakota is favored against Japan.

How does Lakota take map control against shrines? They take too long to burn down before ashis show up. The explorers just disappear and can’t be killed, so they can easily spam shrines everywhere. That is what everyone is complaining about in this thread. Japan has total map control while keeping its villagers next to its tc and has no idle time. That is the problem. (Well one of the problems, the other problems are all of its units are too good. If one civ, such as Mexico has a unit like Soldado or Otto with Abus, Sweden with Hakapelit, that is too good, everyone complains about it, just imagine a civ with all of their units Soldao level combined with the ridiculous and easy map control via shrines, throw in Daiymos, sending villager cards twice-, especially TWO 7 villager cards in fortress, WTF, it is just so far beyond ridiculous it is incomprehensible).

It is true people just got tired of complaining about Japan because it never changes, they just live with it. As long as they never show up in ranked its fine with me.


the key to map control is aggression. Early on good scouting using the lakota hero is key, just go and for the most part hunt down the japanese explorer. You wont kill them but just forcing the teleport is good value, and it allows you to know where the shrines are.

in addition taking advantage of the fast age up option early is good, since you can get to age 2 and send clubs to hunt down shrines faster then japan can age up.

then its a matter of being annoying, you are not going to take your entire army on shrine hunting, but best to keep the clubs seperate just going around doing their own job while your army in on the prowl constantly and also act as a potential raid on their base, which means they can either try to intercept your clubs or have their base go idle or have other shrines on the maps being attacked. force them to make decisions

all the while your eco should be building up and your force ready for a decisive battle

Lol, if they were as good as you claim, everyone would play Japan, including at pro level. But reality isn’t so.

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bro you have been here for YEARS defending japan and every time you are wrong. at the pro level they just don’t use japan because they’re bored of it I’m sure

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