also speed rules, caroleans can just run away and wait for a chance to massacre those tomahawks, with melee attack
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Swedes have Royal Guard Pikes, that they should use.
Caroleans are only supposed to counter Cavalry at a distance too, so it would force Swedes to train other units, and not just mass Caroleans.
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Tomahawks get melted by Skirms, Caroleans do not. You should have got an Artillery Foundry, and a few Leather Cannons.
Tomahawks also cost Wood, the slowest gathering resource by far.
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germ have dopps ? japan has sams? india has rajput? Each of these civs have pike like units that are niche; sweden is defined by the light cannon topres and caroleans; it should stay that way. giving caroleans a .57 bonus vs infantry and a 1.75 bonus vs heavy infantry would give them an 11.4 attack vs skrim and keep their OP hand attack vs everything else; This allows the counter to remain the counter and EVEN though caroleans can still swarm the skrim; they’ll trade poorly mass for mass vs skrim/bow.
I agree, but Caroleans should not be the masseable counter-all that they currently are.
Eiher brutally increase their price so Swedes cannot mass them before getting overrun, or nerf their HP so they can be countered by Archers and Skirmishers, like all other Heavy Infantry.
As you said, Swedes have Leather Cannons, Torp Economy, Hackapelits, and also have Royal Guard Pikemen.
All other civs have to use at least 2 units in Age 2, so should Swedes.
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What I suggested would require sweden to make 2 units. Skirm would counter them mas for mass
Agree with this. Caroleans cannot remain the 1 unit usage to keep spamming and because of what they do you won’t make any other unit in the game. Speed, attack, cost, or even nerfing Torp Eco. We have to find a way
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I think just nerfing their HP would do the trick.
Make a Mass Carolean strategy still possible, but only after the Swedes playes senda most of their +stats cards, at which point the other player should have sent cards for their Skirmishers or Artillery so that they can actually counter Mass Caroleans.
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or make their training time longer/cost expensive, since it’s a powerful unit, it’s meant to be harder to train, it’s a decent logic
Nerfing base hp would have them useless vs cav age 2, until they send hp card and probably start with the 900f up politician.
Nerfing their attack specifically against skirm would allow all current strat except the ones that ignore the skirm/bow counters.
Was the video supposed to prove that you’re bad?
I think everyone in this thread agrees that no one wants ‘mass one unit and win no matter what the opponent does’ to work. It ruins the game and it ruins tournaments too. So there has to be some nerf or multiple nerfs to Swedens eco and/or Caroleans. I’d say its a lot better to nerf the civ HARD to be the worst civ then to keep it right now as a game breaking OP civ that everyone hates and lots of mirror matches of Sweds carolean vs carolean, it can basically singlehandedly ruin the entire game. Fine with me if the civ was deleted completely. Me personally speaking, I’ve been avoiding playing the game and just watching games until they fix the balance.
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That’s why I m saying caraolen are fine ,just give them negative multiplier bs skirmishers in mele mode . They are made to counter mele units and cav , bevoz swe has no other unit for this purpose . but they should not be able to kill skirmishers .
Skirmishers should be able to beat them .
No.
You do not have to nerf Swedes into the ground, you just need to make Caroleans have less HP.
Nefing Swedes into the ground would actually kill DE. If the new toys become useless, why stick with the most unstable version of the game?
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They dont need less health tbh, just lowering their melee attack to 14-15 which is still quite a bit higher than musk melee while also adding cav multipliers to it should be fine. Militia and fusiliers have cav multipliers in both melee and range and they are not OP. Carolean firerate should also be 3 seconds just like every other gunpowder infantry. their cost can be increased by 10%, this seems fair since you get significant mobility and extra melee attack compared to a normal musketeer.
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If they behave like cavalry, make them vulnerable against HI when melee
No need to nerf mele demage , they are not only suppose to kill cav , but they are suppose to stop mele units too like rods etc . With lower mele demage , they can’t do that specialy when u change their mele resistance to ranged one , they will be ripped by mele units , which musk should not be .
They are good vs cav , and mele units , which it’s purpose is .
They should not be good vs skirmishers and crossbow , which can be achieved by adding 0.5/0.6 multiplier vs them
Neefing mele demage will just kill the unit . Weak mele attack means they will be weak againt heavy infantry , and sweson don’t have skirmishers , any heavy infantry spam will crush swedon (± some culverin).
They should be able to handle heavy infantry , specially when they change resistance to ranged , they have lesser hp againt mele units , they need higher attack to compensate .
All they don’t need is higher attack against skirmishers . They should be taken down by skirmishers .
Swedon should have to use hussers againt skirmishers , not caroleans
We can’t even nerf their speed , else late game they can’t act like goons . Becoz of slow speed hussers will just out manoeuvr them
They are not cav , they are musks which has lower range attack but higher mele attack .
They are made to counter cav and mele units . Then why they should be weak againt heavy inf ??
Imagine if u make them weak againt heavy infantry . Then heavy infantry will just crush swedon . Becoz they don’t have skirmishers
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Nerf speed in melee mode (to 4.5 aprox) and 30% melee resist to 20%.
You can give them 12 range attack if you want, but is necessary to nerf melee.
P.D: Nerf speed to 4.5 Is more important than the melee resist.