Ya seems fine that rams completely dictate the pace of the game. Also seems fine to be punished for aging up because you literally need to devote everything to stopping rams. Lets just delete Castle and Imp age and play ram wars and ram defense.
I find it hilarious when clowns like you act like nerfing something thats too strong will somehow delete it from the game. Rams are too good, period. Nerfing them properly will not make ram rush unviable but it might make it so theres not just one dominate strategy of literally just hitting feudal and ram all inning every game.
Also saying that rams are fine because French exist is not a good argument. Theres 8 civs in the game, all of them even the ones that arent overpowered should be able stop it.
They punish you for going Castle you will loose the game. Specially if not scouted and not prepared.
You scout it, you prepare accordingly, you make it kaputt, kill his army in the process, then you go castle. And you should be ahead due to his amssive investment in wood.
Except its not a matter of I made 10 TCs and macroed and lost to a ram rush. Its that you literally need to devote everything to stopping it because rams are too damn tanky.
the amount of delusion in this thread from ram apologists is kind of hilarious.
one guy wrote a list of what he considered counter plays, but everyone of them is shallow and not meaningful. the problem is target priority for buildings that have defense arrows/cannons/whatever is the closest target⊠so no matter what you are trading horribly against the ram player because whilst you focus rams his troops eat you⊠or you focus his troops and rams eat your building⊠or you focus both by splitting army (not effective unless youâre now all in) or pulling vills (worst case scenario) and youâre still massively at a disadvantage because now youâre idling TC, idling eco and essentially held hostage to play their game and not your own - and if youâre a weak civ like china youâre autolose because your feudal game is absolutely trash.
btw whilst youâre doing this, his economy at base is untouched so what you think is an all in is now not so much.
do not get my started on multiplayer games where one player can rams archers and the other can go feudal knights and its autolose unless you also all in.
long post short - RAMS need to be nerfed >>>or<<< TC/TOWERS need to be targetable for manual fire so you can actually target units and not the stupid rams with 3000 pierce armor. IMO just give manual targeting for buildings and this problem is solved.
TC and Towers need to be targetable in any case.
It is a disgrace that we have an RTS where me as the Players simply does not have control over a âunitâ.
Yes? Thats exactly the point of an all in? Without threat of rams people would just go spears and TC boom or FC all the time. Rams are useless by Castle. If rams were such a problem, theyâd be more prominent in pro play. Yet most competent players can easily fend off a ram rush.
If youâre having trouble preparing against a telegraphed all in when the enemy needs the time to either amass spears/archers or get a blacksmith, research the ram, build the ram which all is fairly expensive and time consuming at Feudal. Again, the only real civs that can ram rush well is HRE or Abbassids. In the case of Abbassids, heâll only have spears/archers which is easily countered by your own archers. His own base is going to be undefended as well. HREâs ram rush would be slower since heâll have to research the tech and build the ram.
You get punished by ram rushes by blindly executing a build order. Even vills can burn rams if you can zone the enemy units. Iâll agree TC fire should be targettable, but youâre still going to cry about a ram rush because you were woefully unprepared for it. I can just go for a regular meinverk rush with pure MAA and armor upgrade and have an even faster rush as HRE.
no one would cry about rams if the TC/OUTPOSTS/KEEPS/DEFENSIVELANDMARKS were able to punish the units that sit freely behind the rams. but that isnt the case so rams are extremely powerful to point of game breaking for the opponent facing it.
you ignored my post that refuted your claims of how to counter. RAMS are busted right now and in team games outright broken unless you also all in.
Just like people complaining about a mongol TC rush. Rus, French, Mongol will â â â â you up before your timing or amass a better feudal army than your spear/archer. HRE, English can easily repel that with their early MAAs. The worst off civs are Delhi and Chinese but theyâll still outmass you in archers/spears just because you spend all those resources and time for rams. Ram rush would be even easier to stop if you can micro TC fire, which should be the case so you people stop complaining.
I really dont see the point of an all in being busted in a teamgame when the whole enemy team has to coordinate to pull it off. Like Iâve seen more stronger all ins in AoE 3 in the 2nd age than some rams. To those who know the Iroquois/Otto/India you know
mongol tc rush was broken (and rightfully so criticised) because the cart speed is bugged and many tiles faster than stated in tooltip. and everything else you just said was refuted in my post above that you outright ignored.
the entire team doesnt need to be cordinated, knights and archer ram is busted. almost all quickmatch team games are pickup groups from my experience and its luck of god whether you get good or bad teammates.
agree delhi and china are awful. china single handily worst feudal civ right now.
As far as I can see you can only lose to rams if youâve built no army - or its died for no loss.
If I get to your base and have 8-10 archers and a ram and you have nothing then yeah - you are going lose multiple villagers killing the ram and then force my archers back until I make another one. (Or you can just have all your villagers sit in the TC and watch it die).
But⊠as said - if Iâm magically up 1200ish resources then youâve either done something fundamentally wrong - or youâve blown them on a fast castle or an extra TC rather than troops, and so you were countered.
If Rams were any weaker it would essentially be impossible for factions to do a decisive feudal attack.
I already agreed a while back that defensive landmarks should be able to be microed. Also rams still take time in destroying buildings. IDK how much rams the enemy has to tear down your TC instantly, that would be at least 3. A single ram takes the blacksmith, blacksmith tech, time and 300 resources to build one each. Your army would be more massive than the enemy and you can easily clean up his force. Of course youâre probably unprepared for the rush anyways. Youâre going to lose, microable landmarks or not if HRE shows up 8 min in with 12 MAA and a ram and you have 5 spearmen. Without rams, Feudal is just going to be a TC boom/FC sitting in base with your spears/archer. I can always just play safe and TC boom/FC but then the game would just be stale.
then we agree? my problem isnt inantely with the rams themselves, like their damage, armor, hp cost, timing etc. my problem is that right now due to a lot of overarching circmstances they are a massive problem. the main crux (like iâve said above in how they could be fixed) is that buildings/landmarks not being targetable.
if landmarks and other defense buildings could hit the units protecting rams, then player being ramâd wouldnât be trading at massive disadvantage to opponent. but currently that isnt the case.
rams = fine with buildings being able to manual fire to defend
just going to requote my post from earlier again too
so no matter what you are trading horribly against the ram player because whilst you focus rams his troops eat you⊠or you focus his troops and rams eat your building⊠or you focus both by splitting army (not effective unless youâre now all in) or pulling vills (worst case scenario) and youâre still massively at a disadvantage because now youâre idling TC, idling eco and essentially held hostage to play their game and not your own - and if youâre a weak civ like china youâre autolose because your feudal game is absolutely trash.
long post short - RAMS need to be nerfed >>>or<<< TC/TOWERS need to be targetable for manual fire so you can actually target units and not the stupid rams with 3000 pierce armor. IMO just give manual targeting for buildings and this problem is solved.
I already said I agree with some, but its not trading vs army vs trading buildings. If enemy is going aggro and making a 3+ rams thats plenty of resources he used thats not being used in army. Youâre going to have way more wood for your own army for archers/spears while he had to macro extra for wood. Your army should be quite superior when he sinks 900+ resources and alot of time on units that cant fight. The only time ram pushes work is if it catches someone off guard.
Thatâs their whole point, it punishes greedy people or people who dont scout well. Youâre naturally going to have a slower age up/TC but its fine since youâre not macroing for extra wood for rams. If youâre behind resources something pretty bad has happened.
maybe with omniscient level forewarning that a ram rush is coming from min 0 you can switch build orders, but youâre still forced to transition into almost all in levels to counter. unironically approaching 1:1 units to deal with it (without pulling vills) due to buildings not being able to target fire.
like iâve already said, rams themselves are not the issue. your points are valid if town centers and buildings acted accordingly with target fire like they should do. then it wouldnât matter if you knew from beginning or saw it 1-2 mins before it was coming from scouting (realistic)⊠you could adjust your game play and out micro the opponent from defender advantage. but you cant so
IDK how hard it is to scout for you, but you run around for the first 5 min, checking your close vicinity and getting your sheep then scout enemy base around 6. Check landmark then check his buildings. It doesnt take a genius to figure out who will ram rush. If abassid is not going archers, you can bet its some form of ram push. If HRE went for meinverk then its a rush of some kind. Anyone else pulls off a ram rush too slow.
I think you as the player need to make some decisions at the beginning of the game and should you decide to go the economic way and wait to start building units then you have to be ready for the consequence if the enemy player decides to rush you at the start of the game.
Or you try to make a balanced play and sacrifice your economy a bit to produce a few soldiers that can together with your town center defend against early rush. I understand that some civilizations have more easy than others in the early stages but Iâm sure there are ways to make this work if played right.
scouting isnât a problem your take seems like a moving of the goalpost. like under your statement the player is to immediately usain bolt its way to enemy at min 0. ignore your 4-6 sheep or finding your hunting spawn. just run straight to enemy (well maybe mongols can do this after 3 sheep lmao cause gold harass is memes) but still it isnt realistic. also map seeds arenât always forgiving like woodlines behind tc in choke so you cant tell how many on wood without losing scout or that most maps with huge hils in middle and width that take ages to reach opponents base and after going one way you realize enemy wood is on other side so either again eat TC or go back around. also proxy rax exists and even ignoring all of that 3-4 on wood doesnât tell you whether or not ones going rams.
feels ad nauseam points made rams = busted due to many compounding circumstances. devs give target fire = rams are fine
You didnt read then. You scout your periphery for 5, at 6 you go take a peek at enemy base. Thats plenty of time. Again, literally have had no problem seeing a potential rush of some sort by that point. Youâre not supposed to take TC fire, you can easily infer a proxy especially if he has no production back at his base. And you should have at least 1 barracks standard for age 2. Also, one isnt going to just go for rams out of the blue, youâd see if hes been amassing units.