Im not talking about springalds alone, they are obviously supported by units. But the counter to massed ranged units (longbow+crossbow) is mangonels which are 100% useless vs several springalds. And even if i get to kill 2-3 springalds Id have to sacrifice 30-40 horsemen for that. A too big of an investment after which he can easily destroy me since I have much less of an army left.
30 longbow+30 crossbow maybe more. + 5 springalds. Also some spears mixed in.
What is your army though?
how many longbows+crossbows are there?
you donāt need 30 horsemen to kill 5 springalds.
you can do the job with a smaller number.
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MAA, Archers, 2 Mangos, 1 Springald. You cannot do that job if he has 2 braincells and surrounds them with his units and has pikes as well. You can snipe maybe 2-3 max and thats it. And its not like I have unlimited time and resources compared to him.
He might had an eco lead not sure rn, which shouldnāt happen. Im not a casual i know how to boom had 3 relics as HRE + the prelate used heavily basically everywhere. But the game is pretty terrible balanced rn so im not surprised.
This scenario gets more and more confusing if units keep randomly appearing.
All I can tell you (considering there is no way I can view your replay) is how to generally counter springalds.
I canāt really explain micro/unit decisions in this format without literally seeing your game.
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I try mass Horsemen nexttime vs English, but they donāt seem very useful. Imo ranged deathball needs nerf or changes to springalds. I guess its infantry sucks as usual, just not as much as AoE2. Sick of the cav archer spam meta.
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I find even knight army kill springalds. you can build 3 knights every springald, no?
He had crossbowmen. With a couple he can oneshot knights so it will be heavy investment.
Sort of feel the artillery situation is a bit toxic in general.
Because 3ish Mangos just mow down infantry. So Springalds need to insta-kill Mangos. Which they do. But you can end up in this sort of stalemate of Springald sniping - and whoever wins can bring in their Mangos and just wipe the opposition. Which tends to be gg - or the other player falls back on their base, and their reinforcements of artillery.
I guess the other wing of the triangle is just making loads of horsemen instead - but yeah. Horsemen kind of donāt cut it versus a lot of things unless you have a horde of them, which is usually only possible if you are way ahead in macro terms.
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The only place where Iāve seen something similar is in AOE3 where you have to win the canon fight through Culverins. Same is happening here. You can only win Siege fight with springalds. It is a cool mechanic the only issue is that games become a stalemate.
A solution Iāve found is that mass xbow and or any long range unit. Has better time against springalds than melee units. Per say 30 Xbow can 1shot a springald after you get Chemistry upgrade from the university. So if played properly You can win any springald fight with springald + xbow as they have 6 range other units with longer range are longbow and Cav archers. Donāt use Cannoneers or any sort they donāt have enough range, Though they definitely snipe siege faster
After youāve secured the springald fight it is only a wining ride from there.
The only way in which Iāve sacrificed 30 Horseman against siege is when I have like 10+ stable and like 5k Food that is when Horseman actually do damage
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Right, Iām sure youāve never met the Chinese Clock Tower Bombards.
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One thing to note is that going for that makes the army very immobile so you can take advantage of that, specially if you have knights. You have to attack places of the map where his army is away from and force him to chase you around.
Sometimes this even results on ppl leaving their siege units vulnerable.
If anybody watched the genesis tournament you will see why springalds need a nerf. More or less all pro players are saying the same, springalds are too strong. And they also move as fast as infantry which makes no sense.
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Siege in general is just stupid in this game, almost every siege unit needs a nerf
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the gameās interface is too awful for it to be a good idea to have springalds be the focus of the game
the camera is too close
the way visibility and line of sight works is awful
save the artillery stalemate stuff for a game with a more modern time period and a better camera. medieval aoe should primarily be about the foot soldiers
some long range stuff is okay, but with how bad the aoe4 camera is, it should just be limited to a couple long-ranged siege weapons vs buildings
and fix the fog of war too. the line of sight on units is so small. it shouldnāt be so hard to attack things with siege weapons (especially buildings when you already know where they are). but itās so hard to issue commands because you have these magical operators that can fire perfectly at huge ranges but canāt see anything in front of them. this isnāt mortars in world war 2. itās people aiming a large arrow in a straight line.
You are right that you can invest in more heavy cav than your opponent. The thing is when your opponent hits 10-11 springalds and makes a army composition that can defend it you have to make your own springalds or you wil loseā¦
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There is indeed a way to deal with enemy Springalds, but Iāll be honest: not a fan of this Springald meta currently. Just my one cent.
Check below when I specify even if they were 20 + 60. I feel like 5+++ springalds even if they had low damage would still be too devastating because of their long range which you canāt really nerf as they would be useless vs siege then
What do you suggest has to happen? Because springalds naturally have 10 range, Mangonels 9 range and canons 10 range. With upgrade springalds get to 12 range while culverins already have 12 range.
Iām honestly ok with the current meta. maybe other ways of dealing vs it could be improved. Here is what happens Springalds are the counter to siege thus the why they have to be able to reach them in a timely manner. While you can still outrun springalds with some of your siege. Only saying that Iām ok with it because I come from AOE3 where this meta already exist it is a fight of culverin/canons after mid game And despite culverins having low damage vs units in aoe3. They become useful when sniping important units
This is my thought
Springalds current damage is 60+20 to siege. Even if it was 20 + 60 to siege. They would still be very useful because they would still demolish Mangonels and still do free shots to units. without giving you much option other than getting springalds yourself. Cross+pike or crossbow+ archers already demolishes all land units, while mangonels is the answer to counter it. As long as springalds remain they will always be the meta. Unless springalds is removed and or given less range than mangonels at which point I feel mangonels would be too strong?
Heās given a good insight of what the meta literally is. And whoever does something different most of the time fails xD
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In the developer stream today they talked about tuning the springald to fit its intended role: anti-siege, not anti-everything.
I feel like 5+++ springalds even if they had low damage would still be too devastating because of their long range which you canāt really nerf as they would be useless vs siege then
People are really overstating this range advantage. Nobody in the lower tier is using springalds THAT effectively that if you nerf their damage they are still overly strong. What most people do is park the springalds, right at the edge of the range, and let the enemies walk into their fire. At lower level, no one is sniping everything at the maximum possible range.
The problem is that they can scoot and shoot too quickly (particularly mongols), their shooting speed is so high that itās hard to overwhelm them with numbers even if they have just a thin line of defense, and they have high survivability against horses/knights.
Just lower their ROF and increase their packing time, donāt lower their damage. It will 100% completely change the meta except maybe at the pro level, and even then, it will be heavily nerfed. Another nerf is to have their effective shooting angle be extremely lowā¦ Any of this will mean they will not be meta defining. As long as you can bum rush a decent number of springalds with infantry, they will keep themselves in check. Itās really not that difficult.
The problem is that this might make other siege weapons way stronger at lower tiers. In fact, I probably would be ok with upping their damage on top of these changes, because mangonels are actually really powerful without springalds keeping them in check. But that will needed to be proven out in the field
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Springalds are not good in the design of AoEIV, pro players games are just so boring and unfair with springalds spams, they need to be heavy nerf and similars as scorpions in aoe II