Nerf the Bohemians

They seem pretty cartoonishly OP. Like what the hell is this civ? For starters, I feel like the unique unit needs to be more costly. (not sure) It’s basically a war wagon crossed with an organ gun. Is their reload rate okay, maybe they not too broken?

I’m not sure they good in an open map like 1v1 arabia. But they could be very strong in black forest/michi and other tight chokepoint maps.

Castle Age Hand Cannoneers should have pre-buff stats, 35 hp, etc. Before auto upgrading in the Imperial Age. Give them garbage foot archers, make them missing Arbalest, and perhaps missing bracer. Yeah, I know, they still don’t have Thumb Ring, but they seems nearly good at everything, apart from stable units. Maybe, they can keep bracer.

Maybe only unlocking the first mining upgrades for free not the second one, or make them 50% cheaper. A whole list of crazy this civ has. Or perhaps have them missing Two-Man Saw, but keep the free mining techs.

50% faster markets. 80% seems too crazy. Trash monks replaced with food cost (I know, you need castle tech to unlock, but still seems crazy)


NO. Bohemians are balanced, still gotta pay for those buildings and techs (well, except mining ones).
At some point, the free mining techs will be nerfed. 50% less cost is still a great bonus.

Bohemians is a strong booming civ but very vulnerable in early to early-mid game.

Great on closed maps, not strong on open maps. Decent on water and hybrid maps. Best as a pocket player in team games.


I actually agree on that.

Not only because it’s not balanced for them to have both options, but also because you will never convince new players on going for HCs when you have the option for arbs, with a cheaper uni too.

Bracer can stay, it’s still needed for their defensive buildings and skirms.


Why are they great in TG pocket? they have really bad cavalry


If you take arb away their tech tree is even more lacking. In terms of standard units you already have very little options. If they turn out to op which is yet to be seen (!) rather nerf one of their bonuses.


The only thing that probably needs nerf is that Trash Monks and free mining upgrades, is too much for Arena at least

  • do not need 3 cheaper buildings, free mining techs and faster villagers are actually pretty good enough.
  • the gold cost of monks and monk techs can be replaced with food, but have to become more expensive, such like 150F monk.
  • the problem of hand cannoneers is a common issue, not just for Bohemians.

Remove Flemish revolution, then talk about bohemians.


I would drop the Sanctity and Fervor buffs to Vils. Those bonuses seem unnecessary to me and contributes to their Castle Age dominance. The Fervor bonus cuts into the Berbers Vil movement bonus. They could move the Sanctity bonus to Spanish, who could use it more.


there are 3 cheaper buildings, but don’t forget that you rarely build more than one blacksmith and university … i think the eco bonus is fine. it is a good one, but not overpowered.

i agree monk cost should not be 100F …

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Well Blacksmith for 50 W can also turn out to be OP, as much as the cuman stables.

Not overpower, but too much.
As I stated, even only free mining techs is pretty good eco bonus to make Bohemians quite decent, no mention villagers can be faster after researching Fervor. It totally does not need the cheaper buildings, we can leave this bonus for other civs, even for the new civs in the future.

Cheaper buildings actually means you can get the tech quicker and cheaper, such like armors and Ballistics. If Bohemians user decide to monk rush, it would need more than 1 monastery.

Yeah, that’s not that big of a difference for buildings you won’t make much.
But if you can quickwall with these buildings because they are so cheap, that makes the bonus potentially OP.

I would not change a lot

Make the wagon slower and reduce HC attack in castle age.


I don’t find them particularly strong not really scared of their tech tree and units


Who cares about cav when you have monks and wagons?


Civ overall looks fine, BUT holy crap, are the HW too fast? Heck yes, they are too fast. They’re fast enough to dodge mango shots with ease, they’re generally fast enough to be used as a raiding unit :rofl:

Oh yeah and the Trash Monks. That needs to go 11


so the civ won’t have the final armor on their cav, won’t have bloodlines, already doesn’t have thumb ring and now you want even to remove Arbalest? I wonder what Bohemians are allowed to play at all.

Hand Cannoneers take a massive 40s to create, compared to the 27s required for a Crossbowman. They also have slower rate of fire, and very bad hitrate at max range. You also need to build a University early (build time + Wood) and wait a massive 100s for Chemistry to kick in. Skirmishers still counter them pretty easily and probably Crossbowmen outtrade them too in Castle age resource-wise.

Hand Cannoneers are a bad unit even in Castle Age and very niche, though they could counter some strats like Eagle Warrior flood. Crossbowmen with Chemistry sound nice but all in all, lacking Thumb Ring, Bohemian Crossbows are only marginally better than FU Crossbows, let’s say they are still a step below something like Ethiopians Crossbow with FU and faster fire rate.

The civ is fine. Castle age mining techs might be too much if anything, I could see them cutting Stone/Gold one but other than that the civ looks extremely well-balanced. It has some powerspikes and decent eco bonuses but a somewhat narrow tech tree with few real options at high elo.

Hussite Wagons iirc take extra damage from Mangonel-line due to having a unique armor class. with their 6 range vs the 7 range of Mangonels and 6+1 (I believe they get Siege Engineers) vs 8+ of Imp Onager+ line, you should be fine countering them with Mangonel-line.

Spirit of the Law/Ornlu also made a video of how they trade vs other unique units, I believe as a rule of thumb, equal numbers of cav win vs them and units with a bonus like Magyar Hussar murder them. Even FU Cataphracts (lacking Blast Furnace and having a low base attack compared to Paladin) beat them cost-effectively, most cav probably does too.

literally almost never a relevant tech, +10% in Imp with IMP population of 130+ is rarely THAT relevant.

at least University needs to be cheaper or literally their only power spike which is Chemistry, there is no reason to go for that, Chemistry for early Castle Age is already a massive investment.
Other than Chemistry Crossbows, they have super garbage cav, garbage archers (lacking Thumb Ring which basically makes them as good as CELTIC Crossbows) and Hand Cannoneer is a niche unit even in Castle Age that no good player would really go for though it has niche uses (e.g. vs Eagles).

I’m fine with Monasteries and Blacksmiths costing more though, I don’t think that will impact the civ too much.


I had a great idea about the HW.

Make them deploy (like a treb) to benefit from the aegis

This would make them more vulnerable to siege and offset the fast movement

Plus when in non deploy mode they can have horses to pull them around


Have you seen how fast the unit is? Good luck with the mangonel counter 11